Hi-PO mods, aftermarket parts and your new car warranty

[GlenB]

Can an aftermarket part, like a filter or modification like performance programming, ect, effect your new car warranty?

[The Rob]

I figure you already know the answer but was just putting this out there for the kids to answer. Since nobody has, I will. Any powertrain modification can void the warranty. Even piddly shit like an overoiled K&N air filter if the dealer wants to be a hard ass about it. But stuff aftermarket control module programs, test pipes, sensor simulators, throttle bodies, injectors, hell even bigger wheels which can cause a direct change on the powetrain...dealers will be quick to put you on your own for picking up the check.

"But I bought the car brand new and the dealer had some performance kit on it already," you say? OK, so if the dealer put on, say a Comptech intake and headers on the new Honda you just bought, odds are that they are going to warranty everything just as if the car were stock. Even if you have the dealer put the shit on after you took delvery of the car. Bottom line, if the dealer did the work and used their parts, be it factory performance parts or aftermarket, that dealer will warranty the work. If you do it somewhere else, and bring them the car for warranty work, all bets are off.

And to those sneaky people who think they can just put things all back to stock before they bring the car in for a waranty claim, we really do have ways of telling if things have been screwed around with after the assembly line.

[GlenB]

Oh... but wait Rob... what about the Magnuson-Moss warranty act? especially title 15 chapter 50 that you'll find plastered all over after market part's web sites, filter catalogues, and hi-po mod manufacturer's web site that say it is illegal to "void" a customer's warranty because they installed aftermarket parts?

Why... gee... I even found it on a website for add-on super chargers! after posting the law there, they say that no one can void their warranty for that.... can you explain?

Since it is in print in so many places on the internet... it must be true... right?

[XtremeModifier]

Except you and the dealer didn't sign an agreement over the internet. You signed an agreement on another piece of paper that says otherwise.

Thus the reason I buy cars that AREN'T warrantied to modify. Besides, they're cheaper that way anyways. That, or wait for the warranty to expire. And there is a reason why those things void warranties, because any modification to the performance of a vehicle will increase the chances of breakage.

[GlenB]

Good answers. Here's the deal.

Lots of parts suppliers wave the warranty act claiming it is illegal for anyone to dishonor a warranty agreement do to aftermarket parts or mods. They claim the Magnuson Moss warranty act makes it so. That is only a half truth.

The law does state that no warranty can be voided based purely on the fact that an aftermarket part is present. That clause was put in there to protect the consumer in accordance with anti-trust laws. Without that clause, then manufactures could force people to purchase their own brand of parts or force them to only have maint work performed at factory approved facilities... like the dealer. That not only would hurt the consumer, that would also hurt other bussiness.... like other non-dealer repair shops and 3rd party parts manufactures (aftermarket parts). That is a monopoly, and in violation of fair trade laws (anti-trust).

If you search the net for the warranty act, you'll dig up a ton of lawyers and aftermarket parts websites claiming that replacement parts can't void a warranty so it is hard to get the full story. The rest of the story is buried in a sea of half truths. The lawyers have an axe to grind because manufactures usually have deep pockets and settle fast and out of court to "make it go away"... easy target. The parts suppliers have an axe to grind as well... they have something they want to sell you.

The real deal here is that the warranty act was written so that the law says to the manufactures "Hey... you don't HAVE to provide a written warranty, but if you are... then you have to stick to it." The only thing is, they aren't allowed to void a warranty because some other companies logo is on a part on the vehicle.

Warranties are written by lawyers. So, warranties are written so that they provide only a warranty on the OE part that is the route cause of the problem. Symptoms are not warranted. Only route causes are, and only for the OE part if it is the route cause and only if it possesses a defect.

Here's a scenario of what I am talking about. Your car is under base warranty. The check engine light comes on. The technician checks it out and finds that someone forgot to tighten the gas cap. Is that the car marker's fault that you can't tighten a cap? No. Therefore, that time spent by the tech finding that problem is not something the manufacturer will pay for if the dealer writes it up that way. If they want to make it so.... there is no warranty on that time and you are responsible because it was your fault, not the car maker's.

Now... let's say the that the technician finds that the gas cap is defective. It came on the car from the factory. Is that the car maker's responsibility? Yes. It was their part, they sold it to you with the car, they have to warranty it as long as it is found to be defective.

Now... let's say you went down to the part's store and bought some other company's brand of gas cap because you wanted a locking one. The product you installed yourself is from some 3rd party supplier. The tech finds that gas cap on the car. Now what? Well, by law there is nothing to worry about right away. Just because the part is there doesn't mean anything. But, if that part is the cause of the light coming on... maybe the check valve inside wasn't made right... or the seal isn't right... then the part that is the route cause here is not the car maker's part, therefore, it is not their fault. You can't expect them to warranty a part that is not their's can you? The light coming on now is the fault of the 3rd part part's maker.

Now... is the 3/36 warranty "voided"? No. It is still in effect on the car. Its just that THIS time, the car maker isn't going to pay for it because the bad part is someone else's. And, it is still in effect on that OE gas cap where ever it is... rolling around in the trunk, bottom of a closet, or in a land fill. Assuming you put it back on the car of course.

Ok, so.... what if we are talking about an oil filter here and the complaint is an oil leak and the oil leak is the oil filter?

What if the oil leak was bad enough to run low enough on oil and damage the engine? Then who's fault is that?

[XtremeModifier]

Although, in both of those cases, there are other implied and definite warranties sometimes involved. i.e. if you got your oil changed at valvoline (this happened to a friend of mine) and they didn't tighten the oil filter on tight enough, causing all the oil to leak out of the engine (in this case, a 4th gen rx7 he bought 2 weeks before w/ cert'd used car warranty).

He took them to court, and the valvoline place had to pay for a new engine. So, sometimes, there's other ways around it - the new/used car warranty is not the only one in place.

[GlenB]

Although, in both of those cases, there are other implied and definite warranties sometimes involved. i.e. if you got your oil changed at valvoline (this happened to a friend of mine) and they didn't tighten the oil filter on tight enough, causing all the oil to leak out of the engine (in this case, a 4th gen rx7 he bought 2 weeks before w/ cert'd used car warranty).

He took them to court, and the valvoline place had to pay for a new engine. So, sometimes, there's other ways around it - the new/used car warranty is not the only one in place.

Right. which again shows how new car warranty coverage will NOT extend to cover damage caused by non-OE parts or workmanship. That wasn't Mazda's fault that someone didn't tighten the drain plug at the Valvoline oil change shop. Same would be true if the oil filter they used were defective and caused the engine damage.

This same principle extends to every single part that someone chooses to install on a vehicle. Some parts manufactures want to insist that their part can't cause non-warrantable repairs and that is simply not true.

[GlenB]

Ok, so what about grey areas? Are there any?

What if someone made a modification that may have contributed to the failure of a part? What then? Do we have to call John Grishom and the rest of the CSI team to prove it absolutely caused the problem?

[PNG]

I just did a big article about that for Race Pages. November issue, available at your favorite speed shop this week.

[XtremeModifier]

I have a better one - not gonna name names, but this was an obvious case of poor workmanship or parts from the manufacturer.

I took in my Chevy C/K back in February, complaining of a random stalling issue. Prior to bringing in the truck, I had replaced a few parts, and added multiple gauges (with the purpose of monitoring the vehicle's condition - boost pressure, EGT/Pyro, Trans temp, fuel press, etc. etc.) and all the gauges showed no problems, other than an odd reading on the voltmeter, which would occasionally drop, usually timed out with the stalling of the truck (from ~12V to ~6V).

Knowing that all the systems (including pedal position) are read/controlled by sensors (this is the '95 diesel just so you know...) I figured maybe it was a bad voltage regulator causing not enough voltage to read pedal position. This could explain the truck stalling out. There was no period of hesitation or rough idle or nothing, just running then dead.

The dealer did a full diagnostic (took 4hrs) and found the condition to be caused by a bad (shorted) ECU. Now, this is an EXTREMELY rare thing, to say the least. I asked them to try and diagnose the cause, which they determined to be an unknown cause.

Just incase you're thinking of asking this, no, I did not make any change that would effect the ECU at all (unless wiring a 5A Cobra 148 direct off +/- terminals on the battery would in some way effect the ecu) between then and now. Fast forward to this past Friday - the truck comes down with a similar issue. I would be driving along (this time, with a 8-kip 22-foot trailer in tow) and the truck is just running nowhere, then out of the blue, voltage drop and the truck stalls out. I check all fluids and stuff, let the truck sit (in the middle of business 1 - can't exactly push it!) for 1hr, and then it starts. I drive it straight to the dealer, drop the trailer, and bring her in for diagnosis.

After a 6-hr wait, they come out to tell me that I have a bad ECM. Now, they're asking me to pay for 6hrs labor for diagnostic charge just to find out that it's a part that they replaced < 1 year ago (something about 5yrs, 100k mile warranty on the ECU/ECM comes to mind...). Not only that, but an ECU is not exactly what we call a "wear item" - meaning it's not a part designed to take electrical or mechanical strain (deformation/damage), like a fuse or brake pad (if I'm wrong about this, glen, PLEASE correct me). Not only that, but it's a part that is expected to outlive the lifetime of your car in most, if not all, cases. The first one, I understand, might have been tampered with by the previous owner, or caused by work done by the previous owner. But my thought was, once the gm cert'd tech replaced the ecu with a brand spanking new (and VERY expensive) one straight from GM, that that would be the last time, at least until after the 400k mark, I'd be replacing it. I didn't think I'd be back not 15k miles later with a second one shot.

Anyone else think this is a little crazy? Not only do I have to have my trailer sitting there and go through this again (let's say I'm not too happy with again having my truck sit in their lot), but they're asking me to foot some of a bill I thought the terms of the warranty said they'd cover.

[GlenB]

did anyone come to you prior to racking up such a high labor time and get authorization from you to charge you? I'm guessing no. If you didn't authorize it, you don't owe it. They can't just go into your pocket book.

Now... is GM warranty paying for the ECU? If yes, then they pay diag time to the dealer. It is a crappy little amount... they will pay for about 30 minutes of diag time, and that is probably why they want you to pay the rest. But, GM corporate would be very upset with them if they bill you too. That is double billing and something auditors look for when a dealer gets audited.

The tech might have 6 hours in it, and GM warranty might only pay him an hour tops... tell them to suck it up, and deal with it... that is a normal life as a tech in a dealership... ask me how I know. GM customer service would like to hear about how they plan to double bill a warranty repair, I am sure.

Now, if it is out of warranty entirely, and they are "good willing" it... then that is normal for you to pay some. Either a a deductible of like $100.00 or a 50/50 split. But again, did they come to you and get authorization from you before hand to rack the bill up expecting you to pay?

You say this is a '95? Who paid for the last ECU? You? What is the warranty on the replacement ECU? 12/12? or 5/100k? If it is 12/12 then you are out of that and it is your baby... but they needed to get auth. from you before running the bill up. If it is 5/100k, then they are going to SPW (service parts warranty) it to GM and GM will pay, not you. The tech will get screwed under GM's pay.... but that's not your problem unless they can find something you did to hang it on you.

The "new" CU is likely a reman. In which case, it may not last as long as the OE one. Certain components in it may be working when they bench test it, but an indeterminable amount of time is left on them .