whistling/whining?

[Elliot87]

hey....i have a 2002 celica gt and ive been hearing an unusual noise lately.

while i accelerate, when i get somewhere between 3000 and 4000 rpms i hear this slight....well i dont know whether to call it a whistling or a whining. but it happens really quick and its gone by the time i hit 4000 rpms....and also lately it seems like its been doing it around 2000 and 3000 in 1st and second and around 3-4000 in the rest of the gears.


i just recently switched to 10w30 oil from 5w30 since i just hit 80000 miles and it seems liek it had never been making this sound before i switched oil grades...also ever since i switched to 10w30 it seems like my valves are clicking alot louder. ive been told by lots of people that toyotas always have noisy valves but it seems like it got louder


any input would be much appreciated, thanks

[XtremeModifier]

Could be trans related...

[GlenB]

I can't see how a switch in oil cause any whining noise like that. Valve tapping noise can be reduced to elimated by adjusting the valve lash. The problem with a Toya though, is the way you adjust the valve lash. They use select fit shims that are a real pain to set. You have to measure the lash present at each lobe amnd write down the lash. Then remove each shim keeping them in order. Measure the thickness on each shim and calcuate what shim you must replace that one for to achieve the desired gap between th cam lobe and the shim. Special tools are needed to slip the shim out without cam removal so for some shops, that means remove the cam shaft. Then for most, the source of the select fit shims are the dealer who rarely stocks any and has to order them. The car will likely be down for several days for this proccess and cost approx one arm and one leg in shop labor.... which is why most don't do anything about it and people have told you that "They all do that"... yeah... they all do that because its not worth the hassle to fix.

Not sure about the whisle without being able to hear it first hand. But, if it is something that you can duplicate quickly and on a cold engine.... you might try pulling the accessory drive belt off and drive it one time up through those RPMs briefly to see if the noise is gone without the accessories turning. That would let you know if it is an alternator or something like that doing it.

[Elliot87]

Could be trans related...


well i just recently changed my trans fluid. i put GL-4 synthetic which im positive is the right fluid for it....maybe i should check the level though, although i have my own parking spot in the driveway so id notice any leakage.



and glen--i recently accidentally ran something over and it flattened my tire and put a big hole in my ac condenser, when you rupture part of the AC and all the refridgerant leaks out, the oil comes out with it right? so...im just really hoping that sound isnt my ac compressor getting chewed up because theres no oil in it, but theres nothing i can do about that cuz theres a big hole in my conenser and it would just all leak out! but im not much of an AC person, all im trained to do at work is recharge the AC and check for leaks, not diagnose problems.

but its very doubtful to me that it would be the AC compressor making that noise, however i really hope im right because i already have to replace the condensor if i had to replace the compressor too id be bummmmmed

[GlenB]

With no freon in the system, the compressor shouldn't come on due to the pressure switches won't allow it. Plus, if you suspect the compressor is making a noise... just turn off the AC. The pulley still turns, but has nothing to do with oil in the system because the guts inside the unit are not moving with the AC off.

[Elliot87]

With no freon in the system, the compressor shouldn't come on due to the pressure switches won't allow it. Plus, if you suspect the compressor is making a noise... just turn off the AC. The pulley still turns, but has nothing to do with oil in the system because the guts inside the unit are not moving with the AC off.

no i dont even run my ac now that i know theres a huge leak in the condenser. i just wasnt sure what was up since the pully is still being turned and i wasnt sure if it was damaging the compressor

but now i know that its not so that theory is out the window


by the way, i noticed it doesnt make the noise before the car warms up completely

[GlenB]

If I were looking at it, I would likely drive it to when it is doing it all the time and predictable. Then, I'd stop and pull the belt off and run it once without the belt see if the noise is gone. Now.... you have to keep in mind that if you choose to try that, then you are proceeding at you're own risks. I can't recall that set up exactly to remember if the water pump is accessory belt driven or timing belt driven (brain fart).... but if it is accessory belt driven then the engine will over heat and be damaged in a short time frame without the engine temp on the gauge (if equipped) reflecting that heat because the water will not be moving to supply the sensor with the hottest water. So, good judgment has to be exorcised when doing that. You can't take the belt off and drive around cruising for chicks like that. This is for a few seconds of running... not minutes. If the noise stopped without a belt, then it is likely an accessory driven component.

If not, then it has been reduced to engine and trans.... If it is in the transmission, then what do you do? Do you jump in and replace or rebuild a trans costing thousands for a little intermittent noise? I wouldn't. I'd drive the wheels off of it and deal with it when something else happens to it because the answer is still the same... rebuild or replace and still the same thousands in cost. I'd get all the good I could out of it before then.

If you wanted to go further with figuring out what the noise is, with a noise that only happens on the fly like that, you may have to use a "Chassis Ear". A Chassis Ear is a multi channel (6 channels) microphone set up. It has 6 micro phones set up on gator clamps that can be placed in different suspect places around the vehicle. Each are color coded. It has a set of head phones and a color coded switch box. As you drive, you can switch between the different channels to determine where the noise is loudest at and decide where it is coming from. Personally, I don't think I'd do any repairs unless I listened to it with a chassis ear first.

[Elliot87]

it couldnt be caused by a small hole in the air filter could it? because my air filter is right over where my drivers side fog light hole is and it seems like its been rubbing up on this part on the inside of the bumper. it doesnt look like theres a hole but theres definitely some rubbage going on and the filter media is probably a bit thinner in that area where its been rubbing

[GlenB]

Stranger things have happened, but I doubt it. Air filters... even the OE that the "high flow" filter people want to bash... are NOT restrictive when clean. Since there is no restriction in the areas around a hole, then there is nothing to make the air "whistle" through a hole. It would be like trying to whistle with a big hole in one of your cheeks.

But... now that I hear you have one of the "high flow" (that don't really flow more to the engine).... "Cold air" (that usually end up delivering hot air from the radiator due to mounting) air filters.... you may be hearing intake noise. The factory air cleaner housing was built to deliver cold air from the fender with the intake noise muffling effect of air cleaner housing design and the fender. By replacing that design for one of those kits that looks like they were put together with hardware store scraps, you are open to what the engineers at the factory were trying to block out.... like water ingestion and noises.

[Elliot87]

well it seems like it just started doing it though

[GlenB]

well it seems like it just started doing it though

Yeah, so it is kinda odd that you'd be hearing intake noises now and not before.... but... stranger things have happened. Carbon build up could change intake noises over time. I'm not saying that is it.... I'm saying that it needs to be considered. Every modification brings it's own "demons" that have to be figured in. Especially since I can't hear it do it through a computer screen and have to sit here and throw out some suggestions blindly in this case.

[XtremeModifier]

Why is it EVERY SINGLE factory tech has bashed aftermarket intakes? lol. I swear, I pulled in with the '92 to a tech once with a similar complaint (noise) in a much more heavily modified vehicle. What is listed by the mechanic as "recommended fixes"?
1) Replace (1) motor mount
2) Replace aftermarket intake with factory intake.

lol. I loved that he picked the intake out of every mod I made.

[Elliot87]

oh also another thing i have recent done with my car, is i changed the tranny fluid but i used 80w90 GL-4 instead of the 75w90 (what it says to use in the book) but i used the 80w90 cuz i work at jiffy lube so it was free and we dont have 75w90 gear oil.....but that wouldnt make any difference would it?

[GlenB]

oh also another thing i have recent done with my car, is i changed the tranny fluid but i used 80w90 GL-4 instead of the 75w90 (what it says to use in the book) but i used the 80w90 cuz i work at jiffy lube so it was free and we dont have 75w90 gear oil.....but that wouldnt make any difference would it?

Doubt it

[GlenB]

Why is it EVERY SINGLE factory tech has bashed aftermarket intakes? lol.


What I l get a kick out of is that car makers have teams of engineers that have been designing and building vehicles from the ground up with over a 100 years of research backing them. They are smart enough to make complex calculations in every aspect of the vehicle including electronics design and programming.... but apparently they ALL drop the ball when it comes to picking an air filter that can flow enough air to the engine they designed. I'm glad we have these air filter companies to save us and show us the way and show how a hot model can simply install their brand of air filter into her otherwise stock vehicle and suddenly gain "up to" 15% more power or whatever.... you know... the term "up to" legally includes the number zero.

[Elliot87]

What I l get a kick out of is that car makers have teams of engineers that have been designing and building vehicles from the ground up with over a 100 years of research backing them. They are smart enough to make complex calculations in every aspect of the vehicle including electronics design and programming.... but apparently they ALL drop the ball when it comes to picking an air filter that can flow enough air to the engine they designed. I'm glad we have these air filter companies to save us and show us the way and show how a hot model can simply install their brand of air filter into her otherwise stock vehicle and suddenly gain "up to" 15% more power or whatever.... you know... the term "up to" legally includes the number zero.

if they make no difference, howcome you will never see one a car that has thousands of dollars put into it with a factory intake?

im not doubting you, im just wondering.

[GlenB]

if they make no difference, howcome you will never see one a car that has thousands of dollars put into it with a factory intake?

im not doubting you, im just wondering.

If there are extreme modifications made to an engine that would make it breathe more, then the factory design that came with it may need to be replaced for something that can flow more to meet the demand. But, to a stock engine the factory air filter can flow more than the engine can demand from it.

Reasons for adding them to an otherwise stock engine? Good marketing propaganda.

The air filter is not the restriction.

[The Rob]

Why is it EVERY SINGLE factory tech has bashed aftermarket intakes?

Because we've seen too many problems result from them. Too much risk for mot a lot of reward. Either too much oil on the filter fucks up the mass ar flow sensor, gums up the throttle bore and plate, and/or causes idle control system problems. Or, my more favorite one...water ingestion which can lead to major engine damage.

I've seen it with my own eyes. On engines that displace a shitload more than the typical import car four banger that these intakes are so popular on. They hardly make an improvement, if any. My old car dynoed the exact same number to the rollers with the factory airbox and then with a Haltech intake.

What many of these intakes do is to do away with the convoluted and intricately formed airbox and resonator setup from the factory (an RSX is a prime example) which is actually there to reduce noise and smoothen throttle response, and they just more or less place a megaphone over the throttle body with an air filter that lets everything but Santa Claus past the media. So your hear this huge increase in intake noise, and this is percieved as more power to the numbskull who put it on.

[GlenB]

I've also just the absence of the factory air cleaner housing skew the MAF readings on Ford, especially with the conical air filter design. Because as the air passes through the MAF it needs to be smooth and even flowing through the MAF... no jet streams blasting directly on the hot wire causing the MAF to over estimate air flow or a jet stream blasting past the wire elsewhere in the body of the MAF causing it to under estimate air flow.

I've seen the water indigestion bend rods too... a 3.0L Ranger. It had like 20k on it. They were screaming warranty from FoMoCo... they ended up pulling it out of here on a hook as I chuckled. That wasn't Ford's fault they modified the air cleaner housing for that air filter and sucked all that water in.

Those companies also cause people to do other stupid things to their car. One fella came in here with his $260.00 factory air cleaner housing drilled full of large holes. (had a pic somewhere of it). Looked like he took a hole saw and punched holes in it to "increase flow" because he read all about how restrictive the factory air cleaner housing is. Not only that failed to give him any benefits, it actually caused a rough idle and rich codes due to the turbulent blast of hot air he was getting now.

Another idiot completely did away with his MAF sensor to make one of these things work on his truck. After making such a modification, like removing the MAF sensor.... when he drove it for the first few times, he would have experience stalling at idle, severe hesitation, poor fuel economy, and wrong transmission shift points.... then a check engine light. So at what point does the owner of the vehicle who just did this
start thinking to himself "I've done a good thing to my truck"? BTW... he wouldn't listen when it was explained to reinstall the factory air cleaner housing that contained a MAF sensor.

Here is a tip. Your factory air filer is not restrictive, nor is the factory exhaust manifold, or cat. If you want to change the muffler... go head, but all you'll get is more noise not power.

Before making changes to a vehicle just because you read somewhere that it will make your car a race car, buy a graphing scan tool to run on your lap top (assuming you are running something '96 and newer). Even a cheap (200 dollar) generic only tool will give you enough parameters to gauge any changes in.... graph RPMS, air flow grams per second, and VSS together. Record reading before your change then after each change... like that air filter/intake snorkle... or headers... You'll probably decide to yank that back off and get some of you money back on Ebay with them.

[XtremeModifier]

Yep, that is fairly true. The best thing is, all I did was remove the inlet to the airbox. K&N drop-in-box filter (for money saving more than anything else - 3 replacement paper filters cost as much as the 1 k&n), and then re-routed the intake to a functional hood scoop. The car had a proven performance gain, since it went from low-15's to high to mid 12's. I'd say I got something right in there somewhere... granted, the intake was only a minimal gain, but considering a larger turbo, high boost, and a lopey cam (custom ground), I think I needed a little more airflow anyways.

[GlenB]

Against the real gains from the turbo, cam, and functional hood scoop.... the air filter would not be a factor in gains.

[ambitioussuraj]

Against the real gains from the turbo, cam, and functional hood scoop.... the air filter would not be a factor in gains.
:eek::liar:

[GlenB]

:eek::liar:

Since we've effectively derailed the man's thread, perhaps we can move this to a new thread with data captures to show if the air filter is a restriction or not.

But I'll leave you with this thought. In order for me to be "lying"... then that would mean that a clean factory air filter is restrictive... right? Which would mean that the factory air filter would have a governing effect on the engine. That would also mean that since it barely flows enough to begin with, that it could lower engine performance, then the slightest little bit of dirt in the filter would make sever losses in power. The factory air filter truly needs changing about once every 3 to 4 years (if you listen to a fast-lube shop its every oil change because they need that $$ to help offset over head). The one in my Silverado has been there 4 years now and the restriction gauge hasn't even budged yet and yes... that 5.3L does see WOT. It'll move around 200 grams per second of air flow through that 4 year old factory air filter still.

If what you think is true... that a factory filter is restrictive, then a severe power loss will occur in only months of filter usage and a severe gain will be noticed with the new filter. Instead, an air filter gets dirty and replaced and the driver never knows the difference from clean to dirty.

The factory air filter.... as well as the exhaust... supplies an over kill of flow as to what the factory engine can flow. The "proven gains" from the mentioned engine here would not have come from the go-fast air filter because it was never a restriction to begin with. They would have come from the fact that he is forcing air into the cylinders from the bigger turbo, scoop, and valve opening characteristics.

Car makers are in the "performance" business too. You think that Ford and Chevy would go through all of the R&D to develop sport cars that compete against each other for market... only to fuck up and put an air filter in them that makes them loose power and therefore loose a prospective buyer over to the competition? Do you think they are that dumb to "govern" the grocery getter car with an air filter that COULD be so easily replaced and lift that "governor"? If so, you need to think again. You think all those little Japs can be so smart as to do all their little calculations that we give them credit for.... only to be so dumb and not pick an air filter that can flow more than enough air to the engine to allow for dirt build up over a few years time?

Do you really think that some little company (or 2) out there that, by comparison in their infancy, going to... using stuff that looks like it came out of hardware store.... fix the "flaw" that ALL car makers of every land make? They are going to make a patch-work set up that fixes the same flaw that teams of physics experts all of the world make?

Why do you believe the company that has stuff they want to profit from you on, when I am sitting here telling you to save that money and redirect it to things that WILL make a difference? They have an ax to grind here and make money off of you.... I'm not making a dime here to show you how to properly test results for yourself.

That is why I openly invite you to purchase a cheap scan tool and test for yourself. I'm not unfounded unbacked statements like ":liar:".... Instead, I'm taking the time to explain and show you how to see for yourself on your own car with your own eyes... not some propaganda pumped up imagined-in-your-head gains.... but real measurable gains (or lack of gains).

[The Rob]

That is why I openly invite you to purchase a cheap scan tool and test for yourself.

Now why would any of these "boxtop tuners" (yes it's time to bring that expression back) go out and spend any money on a scan tool when they could be spending that money on valuable performance gains like 4" muffler tips, M3 mirrors, and "cold (most factory airboxes I've seen suck from a fenderwell or somewhere else that would be already considered cold) air" intakes?

[Elliot87]

just an update---- i did an induction cleaning service at my work and it seemed to almost go away. the noise is barely there now, so maybe it was carbon build up.