simple question please help

[Corolla20243]

i got a speeding ticket when i was 17, went to school, got the ticket and points removed from the record. i got another speeding ticket yesterday (less than a year has passed since the first one). i am 18 now. a few questions:
1) now that i am 18, does that make any difference, meaning can i go to traffic school again?
2) will the points from the orginal ticket show up now that i got another ticket?
3) the cop paced me. what are the chances of me winning a not guilty plea and basing my defense on lack of speedometer calibration (if that is the case after i issue a discovery subpoena)

thanks everyone

[Corolla20243]

I have an additional question:
where can i find information on from what distance and for how long an officer must pace you?
this information will be very helpful in preparing my defense. thanks.

[Corolla20243]

please help!!!!

[sjpopo]

You can only go to traffic school every 18 months. I've never heard of an exception for people who turn 18 during the 18 months after they attend traffic school. The points from the first cite should remain on your driving record. It's my understanding that traffic school keeps your insurance from killing you for the point. This one will probably jack up your insurance rate, though.

Regarding speedometer calibration: Most departments are very fastidious about keeping their cars speedometers calibrated.

How fast were you cited for travelling? No speedometer is going to be more than a mile or two per hour off. It may even read slower than the actual speed, which means you're kinda worse off than before you started arguing.

Distance of a pace? I think reasonableness is the key, but I might be wrong.

Drive safe,

Ofc. Hoyt
SJPD

[Corolla20243]

Thanks.

It was 65 in 50. And I was going the flow of traffic, so I'm frustrated. So, the orignial point from when I was 17 will remain hidden from insurance right? That's good. Are pacing tickets hard to fight in your opinion? Thanks,

P

[sjpopo]

I know you know this, but going the flow of traffic really just means that everybody else was speeding too. You were the unlucky one who got stopped.

Sounds to me like insurance will only hear about this one point, but insurance companies continue to amaze me with their ways to sap us all for money.

Sorry, I don't talk about how to fight stuff in court. Conflict of interest.

Drive safe,

Ofc. Hoyt
SJPD

[65lowstang]

True:
You can only go to traffic school every 18 months.

This might help you out more than you think. If you break it down you can get up to 3 extentions (each for 30 days). Just walk up to the traffic window and ask the lady nicely.

This can then be prolonged by things like vacation, school in a different area (college out of state, other side of state) or what ever you can think up. All you have to do is send a letter with your request for an extention.

If you have the time:

When you actually go to court the first time (wether you're guilty or not) all they ask is if you want to fight the ticket or if you admit guilt. Fight the ticket. This sets the ticket back further.

This then benifits you in several ways: You can extend your ticket so that you can go to traffic school again. If you are extending it this long the officer will: think that you are right and not bother showing up to fight you, not bother showing up because he forgot copletely about the whole incident. Anything doubt of the officer's testimony you show in court, you win.

Even if you do go to school, you might not have to pay the ticket/ insurance costs if you prolong it long enough to go to traffic school.

I've done this before and actually delt with the ticket a YEAR later.


PEACE and keep rippin' it up!

[Corolla20243]

wow, tell me...how did you end up dealing with it a year later? i thought you can only get 3 extensions. do tell.

=)

[SgtGrant]

For those of you tempted to use 65lowstang as a legal reference in California, consider a few things: First, and it may have changed recently sjpopo can clarify if needed, if you make a court appearance, you have usually given up the option of traffic school. Most of the courtesy notices explain how to sign up for traffic school. Once you go in and appear in front of the traffic judge, the school option has gone out the window. Secondly, if the officer thought you were right to begin with, they wouldn't have written the ticket. Delaying your court appearance doesn't increase your credibility with anyone, let alone the officer. Third, officers write numerous tickets over a long period of time. We write notes on the ticket or sometimes even a report to refresh our memories. It really doesn't matter if the court appearance takes place shortly after issuance, or years down the road. The facts of the issuance remain the same. This is a common occurence and the officers are used to it. We prepare for our testimony and anticipate the defendants excuses well in advance. For those of you who are proud owners of "Beat your Ticket, or How to Fight Your Ticket" books, be aware that we all own the same books. Fourth, the judge evaluates whether or not the officer's testimony shows a violation of the vehicle code. Doubt isn't an issue. It isn't a jury trial. The judge decides whether the officer's testimony clearly explains that a violation of the law took place. In all the years I have gone to traffic court, I have only seen a handful of people beat a ticket when their testimony is in direct contradiction with the officer's version of the events. For a variety of reasons, a tie usually goes to the officer.

Fifth, many times an officer will not be able to make a court appearance. We are supposed to call the court and ask for a continuance if we have a conflict such as; another court case, vacation, are tied up on a call, or any other reason. It is true that when you delay a court appearance you spin the big prize wheel and hope that something keeps the officer from showing up. It's a crap shoot at best. Many times I have watched a defendant walk up to the table when called. They anxiously scan the crowd hoping that the officer hasn't shown. When the officer stands up, or walks in and approaches the bench, the dissapointment, visible slump, and dejected look are readily apparent. The defendant stumbles through their testimony, having not prepared in hopes of getting dismissed, and they usually lose. As I said, you take a gamble every time you show up.

Lastly, most insurance companies ask for a driver printout at renewal time in order to evaluate your premiums. It is true that the longer it takes for a conviction to show on your record, the longer you delay potentially paying a higher premium. However, sooner or later you will take that hit. In fact, if your insurance company isn't all that fond of you to begin with, they will certainly find a way to get their pound of flesh, probably just prior to your being denied further coverage. Traffic school is always your best bet but sooner or later that option can dissappear. When you play games with the traffic courts, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Just be prepared to take the hit when you lose, it will be painful if you've pissed off a judge.

[phmracing]

fight the ticket if you got him "pacing" you. it's not a ligit way to give a ticket. they use it, but it's hard for the cop to determine what speed you are really going, especially since he has got to catch up to you at a faster speed inorder to pace you thus meaning he could have used his 'catch up' speed to clock you. also, when you are 18 the tickets are wiped starting you fresh, but after having taking a drivng class it is automatically wiped thereafter. anyways, you can take defensive driving an unlimited amount of times just no more than once a year. but you can also get deffered judication which is a probation period usually for 3 months and after 3 months go back to the court house and they will take the ticket off your record. its the easiest and cheapest way to go... cheaper than defensive driving.

[SgtGrant]

phmracing, your knowledge of the criminal justice system is questionable at best. I pity the individual who bases their actions on your recommendations. I suggest you do a bit more homework.

[phmracing]

well, i used to work with a DA in a court house, i was doing internship there and i have seen these situations before. what i meant was that "pacing" is ligit, but it itself is questionable. Most often these cases are dismissed in trials. i don't know where you are from but the rest, when you turn 18 here in tx, your past driving record becomes blanked. in other words it shows up but doesn't count against you unless it's DWI/DUI or another misdemeanor... here also you take defensive driving ocne a year and it is wiped from the record. secondly you can get differed judication, be put on 3 months probation for say speeding, the probation depends on the DA. in which case you can't get in any other trouble or else it will go on your record. from there if you do happen to get another ticket you can have the DA push back the court date and eventually if you push it back far enough you'll be out of your probation period and thus can take differed judication again. my knowledge is based on where i live which is here in TX. you seEM so quick to opinionate on others, my answer is based on the court systems here in Harris county, precinct 6, Houston Tx.

[sjpopo]

Maybe the next time you choose to give advice, you should preface it with the fact that you're from Texas and your only experience is from working as a gopher in a court house.

Drive safe,

Ofc. Hoyt
SJPD

[Corolla20243]

hey you guys have all helped me a lot. i didn't want to cause a dispute by asking for your advise. thanks for all those that replied. i really appreciate it.

pilun

[Solidus]

Originally posted by sjpopo
Maybe the next time you choose to give advice, you should preface it with the fact that you're from Texas and your only experience is from working as a gopher in a court house.



Hey Hoyt,

I feel the same I just would'nt have been so hard on the guy as to call him a "gopher". I would have used a freindlier term like janitor or painter. You know something in that line. Just kiddin I feel you .

[65lowstang]

Originally posted by SgtGrant
For those of you tempted to use 65lowstang as a legal reference in California, consider a few things: First, and it may have changed recently sjpopo can clarify if needed, if you make a court appearance, you have usually given up the option of traffic school. Most of the courtesy notices explain how to sign up for traffic school. Once you go in and appear in front of the traffic judge, the school option has gone out the window. Secondly, if the officer thought you were right to begin with, they wouldn't have written the ticket. Delaying your court appearance doesn't increase your credibility with anyone, let alone the officer. Third, officers write numerous tickets over a long period of time. We write notes on the ticket or sometimes even a report to refresh our memories. It really doesn't matter if the court appearance takes place shortly after issuance, or years down the road. The facts of the issuance remain the same. This is a common occurence and the officers are used to it. We prepare for our testimony and anticipate the defendants excuses well in advance. For those of you who are proud owners of "Beat your Ticket, or How to Fight Your Ticket" books, be aware that we all own the same books. Fourth, the judge evaluates whether or not the officer's testimony shows a violation of the vehicle code. Doubt isn't an issue. It isn't a jury trial. The judge decides whether the officer's testimony clearly explains that a violation of the law took place. In all the years I have gone to traffic court, I have only seen a handful of people beat a ticket when their testimony is in direct contradiction with the officer's version of the events. For a variety of reasons, a tie usually goes to the officer.

Fifth, many times an officer will not be able to make a court appearance. We are supposed to call the court and ask for a continuance if we have a conflict such as; another court case, vacation, are tied up on a call, or any other reason. It is true that when you delay a court appearance you spin the big prize wheel and hope that something keeps the officer from showing up. It's a crap shoot at best. Many times I have watched a defendant walk up to the table when called. They anxiously scan the crowd hoping that the officer hasn't shown. When the officer stands up, or walks in and approaches the bench, the dissapointment, visible slump, and dejected look are readily apparent. The defendant stumbles through their testimony, having not prepared in hopes of getting dismissed, and they usually lose. As I said, you take a gamble every time you show up.

Lastly, most insurance companies ask for a driver printout at renewal time in order to evaluate your premiums. It is true that the longer it takes for a conviction to show on your record, the longer you delay potentially paying a higher premium. However, sooner or later you will take that hit. In fact, if your insurance company isn't all that fond of you to begin with, they will certainly find a way to get their pound of flesh, probably just prior to your being denied further coverage. Traffic school is always your best bet but sooner or later that option can dissappear. When you play games with the traffic courts, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Just be prepared to take the hit when you lose, it will be painful if you've pissed off a judge.


I'm not suggesting that you play games with the court or do anything that you believe is not "right". As popo said ". It is true that when you delay a court appearance you spin the big prize wheel and hope that something keeps the officer from showing up." So, if you have the time you might as well try to fight the ticket.

Another thing. The only reason I was able to extend the ticket is because I was very VERY nice and am able to talk to people (not scam, just talk). I was able to convince the judge that I had valid points that needed to be taken to trial. I was also enrolled as a full time student and took summer school, which enabled me to extend the dates to times when I was out of school.


If you've got the time save the money.

[SgtGrant]

I wouldn't presume for a minute to discourage anyone who felt they had a valid beef with the citation they got from going to court to contest it. That wasn't my point. What I have seen is the results of someone going to court ill prepared to contest the facts of their ticket but simply praying that the officer doesn't show. Judges are fairly astute given the fact that they sit there all day watching the parade of folks coming to court to tell when a person showed up hoping for an officer no show. As a result, they tend to spank those that waste the courts time. Another tactic that tends to rile the judges is when the defendant spends all their time complaining about the officers conduct or personality. The judges want to hear the facts, not stories of personality conflicts. If you want a judges sympathy, present a knowledgable defense.

[Matt]

hey man...it's out of your hands now. You can't tell me it's not fun watching cops go at it. Just read the thread about nitrous. And if you actually read what they are saying, you'll learn a lot about the justice system and stuff. Kind of educational arguing if you ask me.
later

[65lowstang]

Originally posted by SgtGrant
Another tactic that tends to rile the judges is when the defendant spends all their time complaining about the officers conduct or personality. The judges want to hear the facts, not stories of personality conflicts. If you want a judges sympathy, present a knowledgable defense.

That's so true... There was this guy when I went to court last that was trying to act all "Hard" in front of the judge. He was just comming up w/ shit off the top of his head and had no real evidence. Then as a last ditch effort he was trying to blame the cop for being racist.
It was unbelievable. To top it all of the judge got back at him and told him that the paticular Cop pulls over all races (started telling which ones) and told the guy that he had to pay a bunch of big fines!
Usually if your nice in court the judge will lower your fine.
LISTEN TO SgtGRANT! BE PREPARED.