sjpopo help

[Terroristafghancivic]

Hey i was just sitting at a light waiting for it to turn green when this cop comes into the street busts a u and stands behind me. When the light turns green i bust a left he follows me and a sson as i change lanes he turns the lights on. He gave me a ticket for my intake and said that my altezza ligths were illegal.I got a ticket for the altezzas before but got them signed off when i put orange relectors in the front of my car asd red ones in the back. The newark cops signed it off and i even showeed the fremont cop the ticket yet he gave me a ticket for the same thing. he also wrote state referre sign off only what do they do their? Another thing is that I feel like i was discriminated against because he wrote street racer on my ticket even though i was not racing? Please hellllppppp

[RS/377]

I wonder if the street racer thing is legal? I know you can be called an affiliate of a group- a gang memer, hells angel whatever. But I don't remember what the exact criteria for it was. But to put that you are a street racer implies that you have commited a crime (23109A). Really, they probaly couldn't put "child molester" on a ticket, because it hasn't been proven in court. I know my record shows a stop in a known racing area.

BTW- Are those silly looking tail lights worth it? A buddy has them, and he gets pulled over now because of them. Even gets his car searched over it.
You know if you didn't have those taillights you could have had a turbo off a mack truck and a 400 shot of NOS and the cop would have just driven right by you!

[Terroristafghancivic]

true man i dont think they are worht it that is why i have taken them off because i have gotten pulled over 4 times for them. But i got it signed off because i put reflectors off to the side. But putting streeetracer that aint right man.

[sjpopo]

Somebody help me out, what is the terrorist afghan thing? Is it a race crew or what? I saw a black Acura with a big decal on it with that name on it. Where is it based, how many people in the crew? I'm just curious, no law enforcement use for this info, just personal curiosity.

Drive safe,

Ofc. Hoyt
SJPD

[SgtGrant]

Could these guys be knitting afghans with terrorist slogans and pictures on them? As for the street racer comment on the cite, that may just be a note to the officer for when he goes to court to testify. It has no legal meaning. Normally, officers write notes on the back of their copy to refresh their memories for court later. Perhaps his agency is collecting statistics on how many street racers are getting citations in their jurisdiction and it is tabulated at the agency. It has no bearing on your violation and isn't used in court by anyone other than the officer when they testify if they think it is relevant.

[RS/377]

He wasn't racing, he was sitting at a light!

You are assuming he was racing. No wonder you guys have such a street racing problem, you consider every Honda sitting at a light to be a speed contest!

[Matt]

haha..a.re the cops bashing on this guy? HAHA...that's fucked, but kinda funny. Aren't you cops gonna answer his question. C'mon....you've played with him enough.

[TeAm ShAdOw]

i know dam it just answer his question and he was not racing...he was just goin home.....when this happend...

[Flux]

Originally posted by SgtGrant

Perhaps his agency is collecting statistics on how many street racers are getting citations in their jurisdiction and it is tabulated at the agency. It has no bearing on your violation and isn't used in court by anyone other than the officer when they testify if they think it is relevant.

LOL..what kind of crap is this??? Yo cop, just come out and say You police are fucking us over, its ok, we all know its the truth.
When you go to court the judge has the ticket in front of him. So when he reads "street racer" what is he supposed to think??? Obviously the cop wants the judge to know and give him an even harsher penalty.
If you want to give tickets for illegal parts, thats cool. Just be fair and dont make shit up along the way. In case you didnt read the dude was not racing!

Has anyone read the threads in this section? its like every guy comes on here for some BS ticket and that sjpopo guy gives some lame ass reason for why we are criminals and everything we do is technically illegal.. Fuckin cops, hahahahaha.. Gotta love em.

Like the other day i was driving home from work, a police officer pulls up BEHIND me and pulls me over. He then walks all around my car, comes up to my window and tell me i have no front plate and thats why he pulled me over????? wtf is that? I just laughed cuz I knew what was comming..... had to pop the hood and the bs exhaust intake smog tickets came. I have greddy exhaust, dc sports headers, aem intake. All are 50 state legal, I have the paper work as well.

I know cops are people too, It's just really hard not to hate them after stuff like this. I guess I know how the mexicans and blacks feel. We just started going through the harrasment, where as cops be profiling them since day one.
Oh well, life goes on...

[SgtGrant]

I didn't think my comments were all that difficult to understand but let me say it again. The officer may, and I repeat, may, have written "street racer" for a variety of reasons. Nowhere did I say the guy was in the process of racing. But, in the officer's estimation he may have thought he was dealing with a street racer. The original poster didn' elaborate as to what else was on his car. Perhaps there was a banner, license plate frame, etc. identifying him as a street racer. The reasons the officer wrote it on the tag could have been numerous. If you think the judge is going to come down harsher on someone because they are a "street racer" then you have to ask yourself why? Either you have the perception that somehow you are all wrongly tagged for everything you do, which is statistically unlikely, or the judge, who has seen thousands of tickets pass through their court rooms, may justifiably come down harder on someone who makes no bones about showing their street driving preferences.

I commented on the appearance of a street racer in a previous post but let me express my opinion again. And, I don't think my opinion is too much different than most cops. Many cops have been around the block a few times. Many of us have owned fast cars, or still do, in our lives. We aren't naive enough to believe that street racing members put all the time and money into their rides just to putt around the streets at legal speeds, obeying all vehicle code regulations, and never participating in exhibitions of speed. That is the nature of being a
"street racer". The name alone, which coincidentally is the name of this site, connotates illegal driving. This very site has a section about bragging rights and street races. Hello! So, when I see comments about how the police want to "fuck us over" or have a "hard on" for street racers I have to chuckle. Of course we actively look to enforce the vehicle code with you guys. No different than we actively look to throw dope dealers in jail, catch taggers, chase down child molestors, investigate credit card fraud, or any other illegal activity that someone brings to our attention.

Some of you guys remind me of the wannabee crips we have in San Jose. I remember working mids years ago and we would roll up on some local crack dealers hanging out in the hood. Blue rags in their pockets and all the favorite gang wear of the day. Suddenly blue rags would be tossed in the bushes when we arrived. I'd always ask the guys why they tossed their blue rags. They would adamantly deny that the rags were theirs and deny any gang affiliation. It was amusing to see these guys who so proudly wore their gang clothes suddenly have a change of heart when the rubber met the road. The point being, if you make a choice to street race, then be prepared to ride the heat. When you drive a car that is slammed, has big exhaust, low profile tires, a monster tach on the dash, racing steering wheel, banners and stickers all over it proclaiming membership in a street racing club, and all kinds of engine modifications, it really is quite hilarious to then get indignant and say "Hey, how dare you call me a street racer, that's discrimination". That doesn't mean I condone any fabrication, exaggeration, or rude conduct on the part of the police. But, you play, you pay. Simple. Whining about it simply shows a lack of maturity and no grasp of the bigger societal picture. I have much more respect for the folks I contact, and those who post here, who accept the fact that they have chosen a lifestyle that includes the possibility of being caught, prosecuted, and paying a penalty for that lifestyle if they pursue the illegal aspects of it. For many, it is a game. For some, who have been hit hard, reality sets in.

[Flux]

Originally posted by SgtGrant
But, in the officer's estimation he may have thought he was dealing with a street racer. The original poster didn' elaborate as to what else was on his car. Perhaps there was a banner, license plate frame, etc. identifying him as a street racer.


Since when do they make banners, license plate frames etc that read "I am a street racer" ???
This is the exact problem the cops have with us, or we have with them. Thank you for admitting it. If we mod our cars in any way, we are thought of as street racers. You may or may not know this, but some of us do it as a hobby not to go out and street race. The guy who got the ticket got pulled over for his altezza taillights, that makes him a street racer??

Thanks for clearing everything up, SgtGrant. now i understand that when i see a black man driving a nice car, wearing jewelry he must be a drug dealer.. How else could a black man from the ghetto afford these items?? he must be a drug dealer right?? you cops have a great thought process. haha. You flat out admit you profile us and then try to justify it all.
like i said before, if you want to give tickets for illegal parts, go right ahead. Just dont make shit up.. I think this is the main reason you police have such a bad reputation and get no respect.

btw, about judges seeing us "street racers" in their court room. Everytime i have gone to court for being a "street racer" according to police, i have had the judge dismiss the ticket by showing my legal paper work. One judge even commented how he wished cops would not keep giving these useless tickets. Thats why i laugh when you cops give out these tickets, because i know they wont stand up in court. Just a hassle to take time off from work to deal with it all.

[jdgti]

SgtGrant,

Okay...I'm gonna back Flux on this one, since he seems to be headed down the right road here. I've got some issues of my own to raise with a couple of these comments as well. When you say "We aren't naive enough to believe that street racing members put all the time and money into their rides just to putt around the streets at legal speeds, obeying all vehicle code regulations, and never participating in exhibitions of speed." how do you know you're dealing with a streetracer?

You later went on and defined this so called "steet racer" by saying When you drive a car that is slammed, has big exhaust, low profile tires, a monster tach on the dash, racing steering wheel, banners and stickers all over it proclaiming membership in a street racing club, and all kinds of engine modifications"

First issue, people that put time and money into their "rides" to putt around. If I dump an extra $10k into a new Camaro to make it faster, does that mean it can no longer go 25 mph? Can't be on the freeway without going 65? No, it doesn't. Anyone can obey the speed limit if they want to, it's when they choose to break it that is an issue. So you're making a psychological distinction between the mind of a "street racer" and the mind of everyone else. Well, as with any group of people, we're not all like that. Sure, some are, but so are some commuters. Now, when you see this person with all this time and money dumped into their car to make it faster, you assume they streetrace? What's to say they don't go to the Sears Point and Sacramento dragstrips and run their cars? You make the assumption that they race illegally.

Now, when we get into your detailed description of the typical streetracer, it gets even more fun...let's look at the items you've mentioned:

Slammed
You don't have to lower a car to race it...a lot of people lower their car for show. Most of the lowered rides out there have camber problems and actually ride worse. This is ~not~ a performance modification most of the time, when you look at what's really out there.

Big Exhaust
A civic doesn't need a 4" tip. Unless it's boosting it doesn't need anything over 2.25" exhaust piping really. Even that might be pushing it, I know 2.25 was the standard mod size on my old VW. A big shiny muffler with a huge tip is for looks only. This doesn't need to be there to increase performance. I had a Borla exhaust with turndown "factory appearance" tips...you wouldn't know it had anything done to it until it started.

Low Profile Tires
Again, not generally a performance mod. Why? Because low profile tires go with bigger rims...most of your 17" and 18" rims out there are HEAVIER than stock rims, and therefore decrease the performance of your car. Now, if we're talking a set of 16" TE-37's, then you've got something. :)

Monster Tach
This is what is generally called a "rice" mod. Automatic civics with shift lights are roaming the bay area. Shift lights that go up to 10 and 12 thousand RPM's. This is just lame. And then there's the 1,000,000,000 candlepower bulb in those things that make it look like your dash just burst into flames. There's really no point. The tach on the dash should be sufficient in most cars, and after a while you learn the sound of your engine, so you don't need to look at it anyways.

Racing Steering Wheel
I refuse to attempt any real response at this bullshit.

Banners and Stickers
Some people like to show what they have...others don't. How do you know when you see a "crew" name on a car, it isn't a show crew? Does it always have to be a "racing" crew? Maybe it's for their car club, or the shop that did some work for them. You can't say someone is a racer because they have stickers. It could be a sticker for some ground effects shit they bought or something. Way too vague.

"All kinds of engine modifications"
Now, here's a fun one. You wouldn't know about these mods until you actually got under the hood. And you justify getting under the hood by using of the above "visible" examples. The obviously solution here is to modify the living hell out of your motor and keep every visible part of the car as stock looking as possible. The people that do this are your more serious folks, and the ones that you cops ignore to go chase down another integra with altezzas.

so what have we learned here? The cops think that cars with modifications that would generally be associated with a "show" car are actually streetracing performance mods. So they're no more intelligent than the spectating ricers out there. You cops seriously should be concerned about the reputation you're quickly gaining. Don't you want respect? Or do you figure if you don't earn respect, you'll beat it out of people with your nightstick. We don't respect cops because they wear a badge...we respect cops on an indivdual basis...the ones who aren't dicks get treated much better by everyone else.

[SgtGrant]

Ok, let me address a couple of observations by both Flux and jdgti. You are absolutely right that many officers don't know the difference between someone who makes their car a show car that just looks like a street racer, and a serious street racer. But, do we have to? What is the most important thing is whether the officer writes legitimate tickets for violations they see. Jdgti is correct about making mods that aren't visible, but enhance performance. That was common way back when I was into fast cars.

I agree that most officers don't have the expertise to know that having a pimp tach and certain other mods can be just for show. And, you are correct that when we show up to a complaint about racing, or have to deal with a cruise, most officers just pick out what they think is the obvious violators and cite them. Why? Because it is easier than following the smarter ones around trying to figure out if what is under their hood is actually illegal. Unless they spot a serious racer doing something blatantly illegal, no reasonable suspicion for a stop.

1. How do I know I'm dealing with a street racer? Many times and officer doesn't. Some clues that lead him/her that direction would be something like a "Streetracing.org" sticker on the car or some other modification that the officer believes is there to enhance racing performance. As I said above, we do probably make mistakes between racers and show cars. But, if the violation is a good one, so be it. Some officers do go out of their way to learn what the difference between the crews are. I just saw sjpopo ask about a new crew.

2. Do we make assumptions about the people we deal with, including street racers, absolutely. If I stop someone who is wearing gang attire, hanging around an area known for selling dope, at 3:00 am, who has a rap sheet a mile long for dope sales, who is carrying 3 pagers and a cel phone, I may go out on a limb and think in my mind that I could quite possibly label this person as a dope dealer. The courts have long held that what the officer believes in his mind is irrelevant. The stop has to be legal, the investigation reasonable, and the outcome within the law. The same holds true with getting stopped if your are either a street racer or a show car. Is the stop and cite for a legal violation? If so, then the complaint of profiling or discrimination is groundless. I don't dispute that officers make mistakes on the cites. I think that the vehicle code hasn't caught up yet with all the technology or is unclear at times. However, as I said, what the officer has in his/her mind isn't important to you. We are always suspicious, cautious, paranoid, and assume the worst until we feel we know otherwise. It's how we stay alive. But, we try to keep our thoughts to ourselves as much as possible. Sometimes, being human, we don't hide them as much as we would like perhaps.

3. It is no mystery that race cars are much lower. My Z car had a full Suspension Techniques setup on it with proper caster and camber and it ran like it was on rails. I'm not buying that all slammed cars are just for looks. I would agree with you that many are. I always get a kick out of seeing the poor mans suspension modification where all they did was cut the coils. They bounce down the road like they have no shocks at all desparately holding on to the steering wheel gritting their teeth.

4. Sure, I'll buy that the Tupperware container exhaust tips are more for sound than performance. But, are the officers citing appropriately if your deaf 90 yr. old grandfather can hear that exhaust 5 blocks away during a hurrican with ear mufflers on? If they are, what does it matter if it is a show car, or a street racer? I would think that the true street racers wouldn't care if the guys with obnoxious exhaust rode the heat for it so they would get less attention perhaps?

5. Rims. Depends on the brand and composition. I wouldn't argue though that the setup could be either for race or show. But, as I said time and again, if they are illegal, then no issue. If they are legal, no big deal.

6. Monster Tach. I like your description. Pretty funny. But, there are many cars out there that are set up for racing that use these tachs. Sure, on a Yugo it would be a joke, but on a properly built car it might not. Perhaps that is something for the folks to think about before they put on the coffee can with a A-bomb light in it on their dash first. A less enlightened officer might think the engine matches the tach. What was that Texanism Pres. Bush used? "Big hat, no cattle".

7. Steering Wheel. The comment about the steering wheel was legit back in the day since most cars stock came with that huge plastic Peterbilt truck steering wheel that took three people to turn with ropes and a winch. that was my point of reference on steering wheels. We all had Momo's or other after market ones.

8. Banners and Stickers. Sure, many of them can simply denote membership in a show club. Many do not. As you say, they can advertise, and many do, aftermarket performance parts designed to make the car go faster and handle better. I think this one is pretty obvious.

9. Engine mods. You are absolutely right. Many times an officer won't know when they have someone with a totally illegal engine. Perhaps you guys should be grateful that we stumble around only picking on the real obvious stuff. I can't count how many posts I've read where folks have bragged about the officer overlooking the real good violations and issueing a tail light cite. Then they snivel about the officer picking on them. Kind of a contradiction there.

Lastly, we don't ask for personal respect. The respect anyone has for an officer should be for what they are supposed to represent. Do you know why they say "All rise" when the judge come into the court room? It isn't to kiss the judges keister. It isn't to show respect to him personally. It is a tradition to show respect for our criminal justice system. Despite sniveling to the contrary, I suggest anyone who thinks we have a bad one go live in another country for a while. I have. It isn't quite the same as the USA. It isn't the officers job to bend over backwards to earn anyone's respect. It is their job to enforce the law appopriately, without bias, legally, and professionally. There are some folks who will never agree with what we do. I can see from Flux's post that he has a certain viewpoint and probably no amount of evidence, or explanation will change it.

As for our "bad reputation", I beg to differ. The west coast has an excellent reputation nationwide as having the highest trained, most professional organizations in the entire United States. My agency enjoys an excellent reputation that many other agencies around the country attempt to emulate. We have the lowest crime rate for a city of our size in the US. Our approval ratings are stellar whenever they take polls. If you look at our complaint statistics, you will find that they are miniscule compared to most other large city agencies.

As I stated before about being a street racer, if the shoe fits, wear it. If you are simply into show, great for you. But, if by being into show you make mods that are illegal, then you will be cited. If you are into racing, and get caught, you will pay the piper. If you make mods that the cops know about, then you take the hit. However, I absolutely agree that we can educate each other about what is legal, and what is not. As I stated above, there is a new product, vehicle, technique, etc. out every month and it is difficult to keep up. I used to pride myself on knowing all the types of cars on the road. I've long given up on that one. I encourage everyone to keep doing your homework because we do try and learn more about the problem s we encounter. I can apologize forever about someone getting a ticket for something that later turns out to be legal but it won't change the fact that mistakes will continue to be made on occasion. If you get a ticket for racing, you deserve it though. As for profiling Flux, read my other comments on it. You clearly don't understand what profiling is yet. I am at this site to learn too. I suggest you do the same. Viewing all of the pictures from NorCal has been enlightening as has reading many of the articles from the locals.

[jdgti]

I don't have time for a long response right now, I'll get to that one later. But I do have one question...

"5. Rims. Depends on the brand and composition. I wouldn't argue though that the setup could be either for race or show. But, as I said time and again, if they are illegal, then no issue. If they are legal, no big deal. "

Is there such a thing as illegal aftermarket rims?

[Flux]

SgtGrant,

thanks for replying. I honestly have no problem with getting a ticket for something i know is illegal on my car. I have some parts which may be technically illegal and ill take the risks. I have been ticketed more times than i can even count. Guess im stupid for keeping at it, but i enjoy this as a hobby.

You said your points and i respect them, but i think its wrong for police to label us all as "street racers" just for driving with an exhaust and rims.

i hope you do catch every car with an exhaust you can hear from a mile away with that annoying resonating sound. On the other hand, you cops should not give tickets for cars that fall under the 95Db legal limit. This is a major problem in san jose, fremont and other cities. Cops look at the big shinny exhaust and think it must be illegal.

another thing, all the mods you listed SgtGrant are typical of many Import cars. Where as domestic cars get away free from your profiling? We all know domestics guys race just as much as imports, but somehow dont get screwed over like us.

most officers just have no clue on how to enforce the laws, yet they still hand out tickets. i could have a car with port&polished heads, fully built bottem end, turbo, straight pipe exhaust. yet the cop will only give a ticket for intake/exhaust.. haha. i mean surely all those other mods produce more smog than intake/exhaust.

On a side note, im curious to know how the police want the whole import scene to be? would you like no street racing to go on at all?? or mod our cars with only 50 state legal parts? or not mod our cars at all???

[SgtGrant]

On the rims, It isn't that a rim might be illegal. I believe that the vehicle code says that if any fixed point of the car underneath, i.e. the suspension or body, protrudes lower than the rim, then the setup is illegal. This is done so that if someone gets a flat, they don't settle down on that low point and the car becomes completely immobile. Or worse, they get a flat at high speed and become a sled.

For Flux, you have to remember when you ask what the "police" want, you aren't going to get a standardized answer. To be perfectly honest, street racing isn't quite as high on the priority list of things we deal with as many of you probably think. Ask a business owner on Qume and you would think it was the crime of the century. Ask some soccer Mom in Almaden Valley and she would look at you like you just stepped off a UFO. I know that when you are dealing with the cops on a regular basis because of what you drive, or where you hang out it is easy to perceive us as focusing on you. Not the case. Also, ask 100 cops about street racers and you will get 100 different answers. Me personally, I have never seen the sense in regulating what goes on an engine as long as what comes out of the tail pipe complies with smog, it ought to be legal in my opinion. My Z certainly wasn't smog legal but the exhaust was cleaner than most stock cars. That's my personal opinion and obviously I have to set it aside when it comes to enforcing what society has determined in their wisdom to be the rules. Something to think about when you vote.

Most officers really don't care as much what you do to your car as how you drive it. You asked if I would like no street racing at all. The answer is, of course. It is dangerous and illegal. Does that mean I wouldn't support a track or some other legal form of racing? Definitely not. I think it would be beneficial. But, as I said in another post, getting that is pretty hard around here. As for imports vs. domestics; I think depending on what you do to your car, the imports probably stand out more. We understand that someone can take a Honda Accord, put a giant rear wing on it, front air dam, lower it, 17" rims, coffee can exhaust, and intake only and it will still get smoked by a stock V-8 Mustang. But, I think the import will draw more attention simply by looks. Does that mean the driver violates the law more? No, and we know that. Consider how many beer runs we get called in on a Saturday night. Out of the many we get, one guy has a purple and orange dyed hair doo. Guess which guy will probably get caught?

Once again on the profiling comment, let me enlighten you as to some of our training. I did two tours as a training officer. A concept that I, and most of my fellow training officers, used was this. We taught the new officers to try and use their patrol time efficiently and effectively. Not a unique concept just to police work. We taught the officers to try and get the most bang for the buck. What this meant was, make every car stop count. I used to tell the guys, every car stop should be done with the idea of making an on view felony arrest. An armed robber, child molestor, dope dealer in pocket, a guy with a stolen gun, a stolen car, a kidnapper, etc. Can't get a good on view felony?, settle for a felony warrant arrest. Can't get a felony? Get a good on view misdemeanor arrest. Can't get an on view misdemeanor? Get a misd. warrant arrest. Can't get that? Write a good citation. Can't get a good citation? Maybe let them go with a warning.

This was a the goal of the officers we trained. Having this in mind, officers make car stops that they think have a higher potential of a good arrest if possible. Let me give you an example: I pull onto Capitol Expwy. in San Jo just as a group of 4-5 cars goes by. I speed up and pace the pack at 15 miles over the speed limit. I have my choice of which vehicle I will pull over. All are in violation of the speed limit. So, I have to pick one. I look at the cars. I see Grandma in her pristine original paint Rambler, some computer dweeb in his BMW talking on the cel. phone, a guy with a pickup with construction gear and rack in the back, and a slammed Prelude with air dam, low profile tires, giant wing on the back, coffee can muffler that I can hear a mile away, the pimp tach the jdgti described, stickers all over, some huge goody hanging from the rear view mirror and other similar stuff on the car.

Now, I have to weigh all of these vehicles and ask myself "out of all these cars, where will I get the most bang for my buck? What stop will result in an arrest, a warrant arrest, or a good cite?" It is simply an odds game. I know from my experience that there are some folks out there victimizing you guys by stealing rims and other parts. I know that there are some street racers who have highly illegal engines. Just on appearances alone I can spot several potential other violations other than the speed. I compare the above described vehicles in my mind and choose the stop that is going to be the most productive for me. Who will I choose?

Now, same scenario except instead of grandma, I have a ratty 73' Caddillac occupied by four stone cold parolee gang bangers. All sporting major gang/prison tattoos, doo rags, shades, smoke is billowing out of the windows from a funny smelling plant, and nobody will look at me. I look at the pickup, the BMW, the street racer/show car, and the Caddy. Who will I choose?

You see, all of the stops would be for the same violation. Who I choose depends on what I hope to gain from the stop. The fact that I may stop the street racer in one scenario, and the car full of bangers in the other scenario isn't profiling. Profiling would be when all four cars were traveling the speed limit and I chose to pull over one for no other reason other than appearances. No on view violation. No reason but an assumption that the occupants were dirty for something. Just a hunch. The other scenario is just good police work. Now, having said that, I realize that it certainly feels like you are being singled out and spanked more often if you are a street racer because you very well might be. But, you have chosen to advertise what you like and as we discussed, not every officer knows the difference between show and go. Not every officer, judge, and even referee agrees on what is illegal so we continue to enforce what we believe to be violations.

[Rotary2Rotary]

But i think alot of you are asses, arguing with cops they dont have to do this they are just helping you, show them some damn respect.

[MarilundiJuice]

That pretty sad Team Shadow you got dissed by cops. lol

Somebody help me out, what is the terrorist afghan thing? Is it a race crew or what? I saw a black Acura with a big decal on it with that name on it. Where is it based, how many people in the crew? I'm just curious, no law enforcement use for this info, just personal curiosity.

Drive safe,

Ofc. Hoyt
SJPD

[RS/377]

I'm not ripping on cops, I just want to know whats legal and whats not