The Camaro's getting injected!

[472 mach 1]

Fuel injected that is. I have decided to go with a Holley TBI aftermarket fuel injection setup for my 71 Camaro. Its something that I've always wanted to do and my wife will want to drive it from time to time anyways. Theres another car around here seems to suck up a lot of money and she does'nt even touch that one. I will also be installing A/C in this car and going through the interior replacing or refurbishing as needed. Basically this one will be a nice driver that my wife can even use without me worrying if she is shifting it right or loading up my engine at stop lights. The idea is to have around 375rwhp also so that I can at least enjoy it myself.

[Fastback33]

That wouldn't happen to be the ugly ass pointed grill ones would it??

[472 mach 1]

I dont know. Its a 71 do a search. Its my favorite one since all the rest are like assholes. Everyone has one. I dont like any of them past 73. Especially the new ones with slow LS1's.

[Fastback33]

Here did your work for you, you lazy asshole.

http://www.cars-on-line.com/7600/71cam7682-B.jpg

[472 mach 1]

Thats the one alright. I'm very offended that you would think I'm lazy. lol On a sidenote, yes I am going to put EFI on one just like that except its blue.

[Moloko]

Why not buy a Ramjet 350?

[472 mach 1]

I have an engine. I want EFI on it. This is a simple, proven, inexpensive wy to do this for fun. A ramjet 350 is nothing more than an engine. I need the EFI parts to make it all work.

[Moloko]

Yeah, but a lot of times by the time you put the aftermarket EFI system on your current engine it would have been cheaper to buy a motor like the ramjet that also has a nice warranty, and its MPFI not TBI.

[Kriz]

Fastback, shut the hell up.

Moloko, a crate engine is $4700 + other parts, the FI set up is $2300. Why would you waste $2500+ if you had a perfectly good engine already in the car? The Holley setup is also completly progamable with a lap top, so in the long run (not knowing what in his 350 already) He could add whatever mods (cam, heads, ect) he wants and be able to reprogram it himself. IMO the Ramjet is for the guy who has no clue how to tune and wants something to plug and play. The Holley setup is the way to go if you want to do something other than stock.

[Moloko]

The Ramjet is 3500... but meh. Im just not a big fan of TBI setups.

[Moloko]

Never mind, I see its more pricey than I thought. I remebered it being 3500.

How about the Edelbrock MPFI setups?

[Fastback33]

Fastback, shut the hell up.

Moloko, a crate engine is $4700 + other parts, the FI set up is $2300. Why would you waste $2500+ if you had a perfectly good engine already in the car? The Holley setup is also completly progamable with a lap top, so in the long run (not knowing what in his 350 already) He could add whatever mods (cam, heads, ect) he wants and be able to reprogram it himself. IMO the Ramjet is for the guy who has no clue how to tune and wants something to plug and play. The Holley setup is the way to go if you want to do something other than stock.


Guess you used to own one. :angel:

[472 mach 1]

Never mind, I see its more pricey than I thought. I remebered it being 3500.

How about the Edelbrock MPFI setups?

Your bypassing the fact that I already have a car that I devote a lot of time and money into making it go in a straight line very well and be streetable. I don't care for TBI setups too much but this car is just a fun thing for me to test what I want to on and be able to play with as a normal driver. The idea is too test out different ideas including a turbo setup on this engine. My other car is not something that I can change parts out on since everything on that car costs too much to just trade off as I want to. I can have fun and have something to do in my spare time.

[Moloko]

I just said the edelbrock system because its about the same price, and i've heard good things about it.

[Kriz]

Guess you used to own one. :angel:
No, just preventing a flame war.

[doug242ti]

Did you consider Megasquirt? Goto a junkyard, grab the intake, TB, fuel rails ect from junkyard camaro's and get Megasquirt to control it. You could build the ENTIRE system for under 500 bucks and it works great. I believe it was Hot Rod (or something to that effect) that just did an article on it. Super easy, works great.

Plus, its been used in over 600hp hi dollar applications.

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

Thats what I run on my 242, on a N/A set up, you'll have 64 map points (vs me since Im boosted, I only have 32 on boost and 32 off) to map.

(it was car craft btw)

[472 mach 1]

I'll need to look into that. I havent figured out for sure but I wanted some form of EFI and a homemade single turbo for the car.

[doug242ti]

Let me know, I'd be more than willing to show you my set up.

Im pretty much the king of cheap turbo set ups lol ;) If I was building a SBC + turbo I'd do this:

Whatever engine you want to start with:
9:1 CR, mild cam, about 260-280* duration, .550 lift, but as little overlap as you can get (112* lobe seperation would be ideal to keep the duration up but overlap down)
Intake set up from an LT1, 8 CFI ford injectors (plenty of fuel)
Forged internals if possible, if not strongest factory rods you can get (and then shot peened)
NPR intercooler
Single HY35 Holset + external gate (Tials are great and affordable, but there are junkyard specials from Audi's and older porsches)

You might be able to get a set of shorty headers but point them forward, build a single line to connect them for the turbo, place where needed.

4" downpipe, 3" DP back (if you have the clearance stay 4" all the way back) stay single pipe all the way out. Run a large absorbtion type muffler, NOT baffled.

Megasquirt 'n spark or just plain old Megasquirt + an MSD 6al+BTM.

Now, if you can make 300ish hp n/a, at 14psi you'll easily make 600+. The rule of thumb is every 1bar doubles your n/a hp. We've dynoed this alot, on smaller turbos it holds true, on bigger turbos its even more of a gain (my holset at 14psi is pushing much more than 300hp out of my I4).

That single holset should spool down at 1800-2200 rpm and make full boost no later than 2800-3000 I would imagine (I make full boost by 3400-3600 on my 2.3L) so it should be very very very streetable.

That's what I'd do. I've pretty much decided that the next firebird I build with be a 550CI twin turbo'd 69 trans am clone car. Twin GT42R's, stainless headers, but all OEM looking over all.

[472 mach 1]

We'll need to talk more about this later for sure. I'm still trying to figure out where you found the efi info.

[doug242ti]

hit me up anytime, email or PM

dkauer744@hotmail.com

[MistaFosta]

Let me know, I'd be more than willing to show you my set up.

Im pretty much the king of cheap turbo set ups lol ;) If I was building a SBC + turbo I'd do this:

Whatever engine you want to start with:
9:1 CR, mild cam, about 260-280* duration, .550 lift, but as little overlap as you can get (112* lobe seperation would be ideal to keep the duration up but overlap down)
Intake set up from an LT1, 8 CFI ford injectors (plenty of fuel)
Forged internals if possible, if not strongest factory rods you can get (and then shot peened)
NPR intercooler
Single HY35 Holset + external gate (Tials are great and affordable, but there are junkyard specials from Audi's and older porsches)

You might be able to get a set of shorty headers but point them forward, build a single line to connect them for the turbo, place where needed.

4" downpipe, 3" DP back (if you have the clearance stay 4" all the way back) stay single pipe all the way out. Run a large absorbtion type muffler, NOT baffled.

Megasquirt 'n spark or just plain old Megasquirt + an MSD 6al+BTM.

Now, if you can make 300ish hp n/a, at 14psi you'll easily make 600+. The rule of thumb is every 1bar doubles your n/a hp. We've dynoed this alot, on smaller turbos it holds true, on bigger turbos its even more of a gain (my holset at 14psi is pushing much more than 300hp out of my I4).

That single holset should spool down at 1800-2200 rpm and make full boost no later than 2800-3000 I would imagine (I make full boost by 3400-3600 on my 2.3L) so it should be very very very streetable.

That's what I'd do. I've pretty much decided that the next firebird I build with be a 550CI twin turbo'd 69 trans am clone car. Twin GT42R's, stainless headers, but all OEM looking over all.

Geez, im gonna do a single GT42rs for my Z, and Im aiming for 900-1100 hp...

Crazy bastard.

[doug242ti]

Wow Dave, the ignorance is amazing.

Pontiac, no big block small block crap. They are exactly the same size externally.

I love pontiacs. There isn't a block made that will with stand turboing, the only aftermarket ones made are big. Thats a shame isn't it. Oh, they are all aluminum, be Edelbrock heads and alu' custom intake as well.

I could fit plenty of tire under it.

Your missing the idea, its not only about the power output. If I build one, I want everything to look OEM, I think twins would achive that look the best. I figure if a GT30R spools fine on a 2.3L motor, then 40/42's would spool fine 4L's of displacement (a side).

Yes the car would be a tire fryer, big deal. Its more of the process and overall car.

:yawn: wow... Im really insulted. :yawn:

Get over yourself folks, you guys aren't the end all to all things around here.

Oh, I almost forgot. I run 292* duration, 13.2mm lift with a 112* lobe seperation on my little 4banger, works damn well... can't believe I forgot to mention that :doh5:

[fusionsport]

hmmm I dont like the megasquirt myself- but it is a cheap solution- I think they may even have a sequential version out now-

that said I recommend DTA engine management for almost everything- it is sequential, has logging and wideband input(something you have to add to the squirt) has traction control, launch control, boost control and comp tables, etc etc, and isnt that much more expensive in the grand scheme of things than the squirt-

I would however second just getting the MFI setups off a newer maro and dropping it on- and if you are truly on a "budget" heres an idea for you- run the oem MFI from the maro, drop on a EIC(extra injector controller) unit and boost retard, and have fun-not the best solution but it is cheap, effective, and you have the advantage of having the car start and run like stock, idlle like stock, and cruoise like stock, since the EIC and boost retard only work while you are on boost- this saves a buttload of mapping- no it isnt a long term ideal solution, but it will get the car up and running for not a lot of cash and give you time to get what you really want-

When I am out there in April I can help you lay some of this out- its kinda what I do all day


BTW fatsback33- if I see one more example of that sort of stupidity from you I am going to ban you for 48hours minimum- lets all grow up around here

[doug242ti]

You have more info on the DTA system? Its been a long time since I've read about it.

I doubt you can do a DTA out the door for 3-400 bucks. Megasquirt is simple, I've used more advanced systems now (tuned them atleast) and to be honest, sometimes the simplicity is nice.

Now, I've gone the AIC (EIC as your calling it) game before, never again. Hell, for the money, you could buy a megasquirt and use it AS an AIC and eventually run it as your total EMS.

MS does datalog, and you can use a Wideband with it, sort of. I use a Wideband from www.innovatemotorsports.com , its a bargain, has been VERY realiable, killer customer service and is dead on with the dyno readings I got a ways back. This unit has a "nb02" output, where it takes the full wideband readings and pairs them down to a 0-1v output. This set up is great for driving not only OEM ECU's, but MS's datalogger ;) (Hell, the WB02 has its own Datalogging built in too!).

Not shooting DTA down, shit theres ALOT of good set ups out there. You can pick up complete Haltechs of ebay for cheap now too.

Personally, if I had the money, I'd be going Electromotive right now.. their stuff impresses me the most. That being said, I've never had a single failure with my MS and if I did, I built it, I'd know how to fix it.

Still, intresting food for thought (all of it).

:edit: there is some beauty in using the stock system, lot less initial tuning off the bat, your dead on there. But, I've found that the tuning stages are no worse (actually MUCH better) than anything I dealt with using q-jets.

[fusionsport]

electramotive is the single worse EFI out atm- hell they just recently updated their TEC3 to be able to use a wideband, and their tuning software is, while easily understandable, not what I prefer dealing with-

I have used AICs a lot, back in the day thats all there was- and they work fine. it basically comes down to what your asking of it, and understanding its limitations

DTA info can be found at www.dtafast.co.uk I prefer it because I have worked with it a ton, and have yet to have a unit fail on a Pro racing car- and its cheap- a P8Pro unit that would be perfect in this application is only 1500 bucks, which sounds like a lot until you add up the stuff you dont have to buy when using it- no boost controller, no timing retard or computer, it has its own built in coil drivers and can aslo operate GM and Chrysler/Mitsu etc coil packs when operating as wasted spark, it has mappable(by the end user) traction(selectable wet and dry) and launch control, has an O2 table to "self tune" which can be turned on and off by the driver via a switch, has cam control,. It can send serial data to a dash display such as the AIM Drack Evo3, Stack, etc. you do not need a boost controller with this setup- as it has a mappable boost table, giving you control over boost vs RPM, which leads to better power delivery, it already has the wideband input built in, with logging, so all you have to buy is a sensor and amplifier-So by buying one unit to run it all generally comes to less than building/buying a "simpler" system like the SDS, megasquirt, etc. The software and firmware updates are free, and the units are originally intended for BTCC and DTM racing cars and various formula cars.

My current favorite EMS are the AEM(if it covers your application), Motec(if its in your budget) and DTA(like Motec in many many ways, but far less expensive)

I have worked with nearly all of the units and will, in general, never recommend FAST(junk) DFI, Haltec, Electramotive, Wolf3D, or SDS, especially SDS- what a fucking rip off that system is

[472 mach 1]

lol No I'm not on a budget really but I am a fan of going faster for less. Only one car gets the big money and thats my Mach 1. The Camaro is just for fun. I did notice that someone posted about nose heavy cars just spinning tires though so I wanted to point this out. I've been told that my car damn near comes off the ground when I launch on Nitto DR's that are 8 inches wide. That should explain a little about how suspenion works for you. BTW, thats with over 800lbs of big block on the front.

[doug242ti]

Did I say an actual Trans Am car?

No I said replica 69 trans am. Those cars handled just about as shitty as anything else back then.

www.pbase.com/dkauer744 my "credentials" if you wish. Been there done that.

oh, didn't say I was building it for anything in particular, shows are fine with me. I guess every street rod/custom car out there is a waste of space because its not racing :sleepy: