advancing ignition timming

[Turbo_Tercel]

I need info on advancing my ignition timming for my engine. specs are. Totyota 1331 cc twin cam 16v. motor. CT9 turbin, 295 cc injectors. redline 7200. I want to electronically advance my timming, but I don't know exactly how many degrees to advance it. I want to safely acheive as much tourque as possible without sacrificing too much top end power. The engine management unit is a greddy e-manage. The block is strong and can take a good amount of abuse, but I don't want to over do it. If anyone can help please post.

[flip1199]

Jump on the dyno and have a tuner advance the timing with the emanage. Just curious, y do u want to advance the timing?? Most of the time you retard the timing with f/i

[NotAMonte86]

Yeah personally, I would just add more boost.

[PC]

you can gain some power with more timing but be careful too much is deadly. it will detonate and start breaking pistons. this would be esp true for a turbo motor. an na motor wont be as bad to too much timing unless the cr is super high.

[707nismo]

yea for NA, Advanced timing is a good free MOD. dunno about boosted cars though. im advanced to 17* using 89 and 91 octane.

[atomicbomberman]

well, first you ahve to find out what your stock timing should be. Most cars are different but usually from 10 degree to 15 degree past TDC, After you found out your factory spec, it is usually safe to advance it anywhere from 3-4 degree if you run good gas. As a rule, better octane, higher you can advance. Although i would not go more then 5 degree + stock in any case, gas in the USA sux.
If your motor is an older one, usually advance timing can be done with a twist on the distributor, if it is a new motor... then you'll probably ahve to refer to some owners manual or something. It is a relatively simple and strightforward task and it should be covered in almost all car service manual.

[PC]

Originally posted by atomicbomberman
well, first you ahve to find out what your stock timing should be. Most cars are different but usually from 10 degree to 15 degree past TDC, After you found out your factory spec, it is usually safe to advance it anywhere from 3-4 degree if you run good gas. As a rule, better octane, higher you can advance. Although i would not go more then 5 degree + stock in any case, gas in the USA sux.
If your motor is an older one, usually advance timing can be done with a twist on the distributor, if it is a new motor... then you'll probably ahve to refer to some owners manual or something. It is a relatively simple and strightforward task and it should be covered in almost all car service manual.

did you read any of dudes post? not to flame but i would like to point out that he has a not so stock motor and he is running an emanage so he can just dial in more timing in the software and prolly at various rpms as well.

your post is not wrong but you just didnt help the guy at all and it seems like you didnt even read what he had to say. sorry.

fusionsport should be able to shed more light on this and Don sorry but i have no luck with your request yet. dont give up hope yet though i may still be able to get it.

[fusionsport]

If you have the emanage support tool you can change timing in the 16x16 map, and add and take out timing as nec.
Before I give my recomendations realize that A) messing with timing is a good way to blow holes in pistons in a big hurry B)you should do all tuning on a dyno, but realizing that most budgets dont allow for massive amounts of dyno time you can, if you are very careful tune on the street using the following technique, realizing that once you have the map close you will need to put the car on a dyno, preferably a loading type dyno such as a dynapack rather than a dynojet, which is useful for proving hp but barely adequte for tuning

My recomendation if you are going to fool with timing is to invest in a MSD or similar knock sensor that has a light you can mount in the dash or where you can see it... by doing repetetive runs on the street at various throttle positons and loads and rpms, advancing the timing very carefully until you get the slightest hint of knock, then backing off.. YOU MUST BE EXTREMELY AWARE OF WHAT you are doing....start at light load medium to 3/4 throttle and really spend time dialing the timing in... there are a lot of gains to be made here as any power made under light load/partial throttle translates directly to drivability and acceleration. Under high Load and throttle you will likely be taking timing out and raising boost, but as long as you arent experiencing knock you can try advancing timing until you do.. you might not make power, but only testing will tell.

I would HIGHLY recomend a WIDEBAND O2 sensor with some form of logging, like the FJO or the similar that logs rpm, MAP, and AFR, be used at all times while you are tuning. If you arent using a wideband with logging you are literally shooting in the dark. If you are using the E-01 boost controller as well you might try logging the knock sensors reading as well. I know all this seems like a lot of trouble, but its what seperates the people making power from the people blowing engines

[atomicbomberman]

Originally posted by PC
did you read any of dudes post? not to flame but i would like to point out that he has a not so stock motor and he is running an emanage so he can just dial in more timing in the software and prolly at various rpms as well.

your post is not wrong but you just didnt help the guy at all and it seems like you didnt even read what he had to say. sorry.

fusionsport should be able to shed more light on this and Don sorry but i have no luck with your request yet. dont give up hope yet though i may still be able to get it.

Opps, missed "electronic"...:drink:

[Wolf]

Don't Tercels use distributors?

[Turbo_Tercel]

yeah the old ones like mine have distributers, but the new ones are DIS and returnless. the timming is my last resort for free mods, I've already adjusted boost pressure to a level where the turbin is most efficient. anymore and the blades will go hyper. I appreciate the information everyone has offered. I will use them as guidlines when making adjustments.

[flip1199]

since your turbo is already maxed out then get a bigger turbo.

[Wolf]

If you have a distributor, just loosen the hold down bolt and turn it to advance or retard the timing. Why buy an expensive electronic controller to do it? That's like spending $500 on an electronic boost controller- a $50 manual one will do the just just as well (or better).

[flip1199]

he already has the greddy emanage

[PC]

the emanage lets you alter timing on the fly via laptop. you can set it to advvance at xxx degrees at xxx rpm etc etc. its kind of like a standlone except its a piggy back. you set your static timing at the dist then you fine tune it via the software.

i have only glanced at the emanage software but i know motec and autronic etc you can vary timing quite abit based on a lot of diff factors. and yes both of those setups still have a dist. it basically gets turned into a trigger thats all. the stock ecu will also control timing. it will advance and retard based on throttle position on a stock toyota. most of the cars say pasy 85 or so that toyota made were like this. of course you cant control the computer without an emanage...so you can only set the static timing

i guess no one else has messed with any kind of standalone???

[flip1199]

Well i'm a hondata man myself. Havent really looked into the emanage, but they all pretty much work the same.

If you want to precisely control timing you better take your car to your local shop and get dyno tuned. I wouldn't recommend advancing the timing. If you advance it to much you can say bye bye motor. Detenation is not your friend. I'd recommend getting a larger turbo since your is already maxed out.

[Turbo_Tercel]

yeah, I have explored the larger turbo option, I estimate it will cost around $1500, I need a FMIC because I have a TMIC, new piping, larger injectors, larger fuel pump, and a new exhaust manifold. thats why I was trying to exploit all of the free mods available.

[flip1199]

Well bumping up the timing isn't really a free mod. The more advance the times the closer to detenation you are. You'll need to run a higher octane gas to avoid detenation with that advance timing.

[Turbo_Tercel]

and your right. these settings will just be used for running quicker ets at the track with 100 octain if needed. I can just load a milder program for street use. I wouldnt want to blow this motor, they are very hard to come by.