View Full Version : Colin McCrae in talks with NASCAR
Jaggorri
09-08-2003, 02:41 PM
Click me for more info (http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/News/2003/012/2003__R_AUS_McRaeNASCAR.htm)
Discuss.
It would be interesting to see how, what alot of people say, are the best drivers in the world, do in the old roundy round circuit. It would be a loss to Rally fans though. Think he may be the new secret weapon of the "top secret" Toyota team?
That would be boring as hell goin from rally to nascar!! At least i would be bored going from WRC to nasca
I guess nascar is trying to expand their demographic?
Originally posted by T_MO
That would be boring as hell goin from rally to nascar!! At least i would be bored going from WRC to nascar
It may not be as exciting as rally but if you're driving at 190mph an inch off the car in front of of you, I wouldnt exactly call that boring. It may bore some to watch but I guarantee it's not boring from the drivers seat.
I guess nascar is trying to expand their demographic?
Or maybe McCrae is trying to expand his wallet or his life excpectancy.
Jaggorri
09-08-2003, 03:05 PM
No. Thanks to FIA's new rules, Colin might be losing his seat at Citroen next year. As a result, he's exploring all of his options.
pakisho
09-08-2003, 03:18 PM
I can see it now. The mad scotsman pitches his 700hp paper-body transam into turn one, stabs the brake and twitches the wheel, and breaks the rear lose, wheels scrabling for traction, sliding beautifully...................into the wall, as he realizes, much to his chagrin, that you only turn left in Nascar.
Originally posted by abcd123
I can see it now. The mad scotsman pitches his 700hp paper-body transam into turn one, stabs the brake and twitches the wheel, and breaks the rear lose, wheels scrabling for traction, sliding beautifully...................into the wall, as he realizes, much to his chagrin, that you only turn left in Nascar.
Unless your at Sears or the Glen (my 2 favorite NASCAR tracks BTW), but that scenario is hilarious :hehe:
atomicbomberman
09-08-2003, 03:52 PM
Well, I guess we'll have to see what the next "Colin McRae" video game will be ;)
Maybe Colin McRae Rally 4 might not be about rally afterall!
sracer
09-08-2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by atomicbomberman
Well, I guess we'll have to see what the next "Colin McRae" video game will be ;)
Maybe Colin McRae Rally 4 might not be about rally afterall!
Yeah Nascar finally came here to. They raced at PR(Pacific Raceways) on there road course. I missed it because of ther things I had to do. But I did see some highlights and it was cool to watch them
Well, I think Colin is just selling out. Just like he sold out and went to Citroen. I would like to see him at watkins glen though...I wonder of the stock cars can drift...
ShadyMilkman
09-08-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Longroof
[B]It may not be as exciting as rally but if you're driving at 190mph an inch off the car in front of of you, I wouldnt exactly call that boring. It may bore some to watch but I guarantee it's not boring from the drivers seat.
[B]
yeah, but then again driving 10mph in a gokart at Malibu Speed Zone isn't boring from the driver's seat...
it's all reletive to me... it's one thing to be going 190mph on a drylake bed... it's a whole different story to be doing 190 in an alley...
...it's one thing to reach go 190 on a track in an F1 car, than slow to 20 and take a hairpin...
...but going 190 and slowing to 180 to take a turn with a bunch of other cars doing the same speed, who don't need to run single-file around said turn so they stay where they are around it, is- not exactly as interesting, or difficult.
*before flame read*
I'm not saying that any idiot can race NASCAR because that's clearly bullshit- i fully acknowledge that it takes experience and skill that most people don't have... but in comparison to F1, or WRC?! HA. i will say that. A NASCAR driver wouldn't last 5 seconds on a WRC course- i don't think anyone disputes that.
so why the fuck would McRae consider NASCAR?? Because it pays UNGODLY sums of money
ShadyMilkman
09-08-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by greg
Well, I think Colin is just selling out.
selling out is for garage bands and hardcore actors who do 1-800 collect commercials...
...I think that he should stick to what he loves to race, if that's rally, than switching teams is of no real consequence because he'd still be doing what he loves... but yeah, to go to NASCAR simply because it pays tons n tons more is just kinda sad...
Originally posted by ShadyMilkman
but yeah, to go to NASCAR simply because it pays tons n tons more is just kinda sad...
Why do you think he left ford? Shit, Markko Martin wanted to stay with ford so badly, he offered to take a pay cut, so that they could pay colin more. I can understand the financial aspect, but theres a huge loyalty issue with him. He dumps his codrivers and his teams WAY TOO MUCH, for the stupidest reasons.
If it seems that I am bitter, I am. Colin was my favorite driver for a long time, until I saw what kind of person he really was. Now my heart is with Markko, cause he is such a great guy.
Originally posted by ShadyMilkman
*before flame read*
I'm not saying that any idiot can race NASCAR because that's clearly bullshit- i fully acknowledge that it takes experience and skill that most people don't have... but in comparison to F1, or WRC?! HA. i will say that. A NASCAR driver wouldn't last 5 seconds on a WRC course- i don't think anyone disputes that.
Like Dave said alot of these guys came up driving on the dirt, hell they are backwoods boys ya know. That was the dirt road to thier house they used to practice on.
But serious, Im not saying that that NASCAR drivers are on the same level as F1 or WRC but I dont think they are to far behind. Some drivers did come up racing nothing but circle tracks but other who came up through carts and other form might suprise you behind the wheel of an F1 car, if they remember not to rub. :)
turbo2.3
09-09-2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by greg
Why do you think he left ford? Shit, Markko Martin wanted to stay with ford so badly, he offered to take a pay cut, so that they could pay colin more. I can understand the financial aspect, but theres a huge loyalty issue with him. He dumps his codrivers and his teams WAY TOO MUCH, for the stupidest reasons.
If it seems that I am bitter, I am. Colin was my favorite driver for a long time, until I saw what kind of person he really was. Now my heart is with Markko, cause he is such a great guy.
same thing here. I used to love colin, now I think he is an ass. Go Martin!!!:3gears:
Fast2Seater
09-09-2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by ShadyMilkman
*before flame read*
I'm not saying that any idiot can race NASCAR because that's clearly bullshit- i fully acknowledge that it takes experience and skill that most people don't have... but in comparison to F1, or WRC?! HA. i will say that. A NASCAR driver wouldn't last 5 seconds on a WRC course- i don't think anyone disputes that.
Hmmm.... Michelin Race of Champions. Team America won the latest annual event. (First time we won) Colin Edwards (Superbike), Jeff Gordon (NASCAR), and Jimmie Johnson (NASCAR) were driving for America. They were up against rally drivers, F1 drivers, and basically some of the top motorsports competitors from around the world. It is an elimination type rally that is held on one of the Canary Islands.
Marcus Grunholm won the individual competition.
Yes, many people that compete in NASCAR have adaptability.
Jaggorri
09-09-2003, 09:35 AM
Wow, lots to comment on here, so here we go:
Greg- You are so impossibly wrong, it's not even funny. Colin has never had "loyalty issues". After he won his World title with Subaru, Ford heavily recruited him to assit in developing their new rally car (the Focus). Yes, they offered more money, and Colin had the chance to offer his expertise in building a rally car the way he wanted it. As a result, he went to Ford, where he stayed for seven years until this season when Ford told him "Sorry, but we don't feel that would should pay you and Carlos Sainz as much as we currently are since you are getting on in the years so one of you has to go." Colin didn't choose to leave Ford. He was damn near forced to, which worked out perfectly for Citroen as they had the young gun (Sebastian Loeb) who could definately learn from the greats, and they were developing a new car, which once again, heavily benefitted from the input of Colin and Carlos. As for the co-driver bit, Derrick Ringer was Colin's co-driver when he won the world championship back in 1995, but then quit the team because Colin literally used to scare the shit out of him. After that, he teamed with Nicky Grist. He and Nicky were together all through the Ford years, then Nicky chose to leave because he and Colin simply were not getting along as well as a team. This, in turn, brought Derrick Ringer back into the co-driver's chair. Colin could have had anyone in that seat, but instead he called someone he knew and trusted. I believe you were saying something funny about "loyalty issues"?
Oh, and here's one more thing to think about: if you were a professional race car driver and you knew for a fact that you still had several competitive years left in you, but you were being forced out of your seat due to a rule change by the governing body, wouldn't you explore your options? I'm going to bet you would. If you say you wouldn't, you are lying through your teeth.
Fast2Seater- There is no denying Jeff Gordon is a tremendously good driver. Why? Because he grew up racing road courses (in California no less), which elevated his adaptability. He kicked ass and took names at the Race of Champions, but that doesn't mean that all NASCAR drivers are nearly that adept at driving that well.
Carry on.
bigbadgreen
09-09-2003, 10:35 AM
Great discussion. I do feel that on a whole most race drivers would be able to adapt to a lot of the styles of racing out there simply because they know how to handle a car to it's limits. Jeff Gordon is an excellent example for nascar, It's probably most relative to compare him with F1 drivers because they did that switch at indy with montoya. It's true he is an exceptional driver but there are other nascar drivers who are very good at running road courses. Would they be able to jump into WRC or F1 and be amazing, no, but i don't think m schumacher could jump into a winston cup car and dominate. It's all relative I guess.
I think it would be interesting if they expanded the now threatened IROC series to include road courses and rallys and invite drivers from all over the world.
Robbie Gordon is another example. I dont think he would have to much of a problem jumping into other forms of racing.
Originally posted by Byron
Greg- You are so impossibly wrong, it's not even funny. Colin has never had "loyalty issues". After he won his World title with Subaru, Ford heavily recruited him to assit in developing their new rally car (the Focus). Yes, they offered more money, and Colin had the chance to offer his expertise in building a rally car the way he wanted it. As a result, he went to Ford, where he stayed for seven years until this season when Ford told him "Sorry, but we don't feel that would should pay you and Carlos Sainz as much as we currently are since you are getting on in the years so one of you has to go." Colin didn't choose to leave Ford. He was damn near forced to, which worked out perfectly for Citroen as they had the young gun (Sebastian Loeb) who could definately learn from the greats, and they were developing a new car, which once again, heavily benefitted from the input of Colin and Carlos. As for the co-driver bit, Derrick Ringer was Colin's co-driver when he won the world championship back in 1995, but then quit the team because Colin literally used to scare the shit out of him. After that, he teamed with Nicky Grist. He and Nicky were together all through the Ford years, then Nicky chose to leave because he and Colin simply were not getting along as well as a team. This, in turn, brought Derrick Ringer back into the co-driver's chair. Colin could have had anyone in that seat, but instead he called someone he knew and trusted. I believe you were saying something funny about "loyalty issues"?
Oh, and here's one more thing to think about: if you were a professional race car driver and you knew for a fact that you still had several competitive years left in you, but you were being forced out of your seat due to a rule change by the governing body, wouldn't you explore your options? I'm going to bet you would. If you say you wouldn't, you are lying through your teeth.
What you say is the opposite of EVERYTHING I have heard and learned. You say Ringer quit Colin, I heard it was the other way. You say Grist quit Colin, again, not what I heard. You say Colin was forced to leave ford due to pay cuts. I heard he wanted MORE pay, more than ford could pay. Ford even made a last ditch offer to pay him quite a bit more than his current pay, butthat wasnt good enough. I even remember an interview where Colin was asked, "If ford will match Citroen's offer, will you stay?" He just kinda laughed uncomfortably, shook his head and said "I can't say right now." He took Ringer back in a pinch, from what i understand, because he needed a Co Driver to finish the season with ford, because according to Ford Rally Sport, "McRae Drops Grist Mid-Season".
I dont fault him for switching from Subaru to Ford, Hell I'm not sure I can fault him for switching Codrivers the first time, but His actoins as of late have skewed my viws of him.
And why would Colin be the one forced out of Citroen? He usually finishes higher than Carlos Sainz.
Jaggorri
09-09-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by greg
And why would Colin be the one forced out of Citroen? He usually finishes higher than Carlos Sainz.
Unfortunately, due to Colin penchant for destroying his cars, he is currently lower in the championship standing than Sainz (Carlos: 48, Colin: 33 (http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/Results/Standings/Standings.htm)). Right now the teams only care about one thing: Winning that Championship. If Carlos ends the season in better standing than Colin, Carlos has that coveted 2nd seat and Colin is without a ride.
Basically you can blame FIA for all of this mess. ;)
Originally posted by Byron
Unfortunately, due to Colin penchant for destroying his cars, he is currently lower in the championship standing than Sainz (Carlos: 48, Colin: 33 (http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/Results/Standings/Standings.htm)). Right now the teams only care about one thing: Winning that Championship. If Carlos ends the season in better standing than Colin, Carlos has that coveted 2nd seat and Colin is without a ride.
Basically you can blame FIA for all of this mess. ;)
Very good point.
A bit off topic, but do you think Markko should have been DQed for the rock/spare tire incident, or just assesed a time penalty?
Jaggorri
09-09-2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by greg
A bit off topic, but do you think Markko should have been DQed for the rock/spare tire incident, or just assesed a time penalty?
Time penalty at the most. He broke something and improvised with what he had in order to continue. It's not like he ripped out some ballast, tossed it into the crowd, then cranked the boost on his turbo, thus giving him an impossible advantage. The DQ was WAY overboard for what happened.
Once again, FIA has succeeded in pissing me off.
Is the FiA get under new management or something? They have gotten a stick up their asses about even the smallest things lately.
atomicbomberman
09-09-2003, 02:48 PM
I think FIA succeed in pissing a lot of people off with the recent changes and shit.
I have to admit that the top NASCAR drivers are very skillful people and have talent, the problem seems to be exposure that these top drivers get (i.e. Jeff Gordon). Top american race car drivers just doesn't get spotted out by international teams like the Finns or the French do. As a result, if you compare the shear driving skills of a typical F1 drivers v.s. Rally drivers v.s. NASCAR or Indy drivers, there is a big difference. I think a while ago Williams BMW did this promotion thing where Montoya and Gordon switch cars and drive around some road corse. Montoya post a time that's only 2 seconds behind that of Gordon in his own car, while Gordon's time was significantly slower then Montoya (Not even fast enough to earn him an F1 grid space). No doubt with practice he'll better, but again... exposure. If SCCA Pro-Rally grows in U.S. we may soon see Americans moving into the WRC scene tho. (Dodge Neon WRC car anyone?)
Originally posted by atomicbomberman
If SCCA Pro-Rally grows in U.S. we may soon see Americans moving into the WRC scene
Ramana Laggmann. Propecia Rally New Zeland 2003. WRX STi.
last1
09-09-2003, 04:58 PM
Yes if Mr. McCrae goes to NASCAR than rally will lose a good-great driver but there are many more people who I cant understand that I would still watch. Whatever!
bigbadgreen
09-09-2003, 06:49 PM
atomicbomberman: you are correct in saying that montoya was a lot closer to gordons times than the other way around. However that is probably due to a lot of issues outside of the drivers control, for one thing NASCAR doesn't run the road course at indy so it was jeff's first attempt at it, not to mention the team didn't have car setups so it was a basic tune and probably very similar for both montoya and gordon. While montoya has raced there before. I would also have to say that a winston cup car is more forgiving to drive, whereas with an F1 car if you brake a tenth too long you'll overshoot the turn because of the vast difference performance wise between the two types of cars. I was at that track event and both drivers look good, I also taped the coverage on speed channel and gordon suprised a lot of the F1 people.
I also agree that with more practice both drivers would have done a lot better.
Fast2Seater
09-10-2003, 11:31 AM
Byron, I am very aware that many NASCAR guys wouldn't be able to compete in much anything but a Stock Car, but it was appearing to me that previous posters in this thread felt that no NASCAR drivers had anywhere near the skill of drivers from other series.
Bomberman, two seconds back in a NASCAR race at a road course will have you hoping for a provisional spot. The 36th best qualifyer was less than 2 seconds off the pole at Watkins Glen. At Sears Point the difference was about 2.1 seconds. Both those guys are highly skilled drivers and, as others have said, both could easily improve with more practice.
Mr Rogers
09-14-2003, 07:02 PM
jeff gordan can drive, but so can tony stewert, as many people may not like him, he is still a talented driver, and so is robbie gordon, because he came over from CART to race NASCAR, and then during the road courses you have Boris Said, and ahh the otehr guy who drives the C5R, im forgetting his name, but they call them road course ringers, and they from what i remembered did pretty well. not sure that helps my point, but what im saying is NASCAR does require some skill, its not all about making lefts, and drafting, being able to hold your car at 180 with two cars right next to you coming up to a banked trun, it takes skill to keep from wrecking.
particleeffect
09-15-2003, 04:11 AM
whats this new FIA rule that might force Colin out of WRC?
Jaggorri
09-15-2003, 10:08 AM
It's called the 3rd Driver Rule. It states that each team can only have 2 drivers that have been on the podium in the last three years. The third driver can be anyone who hasn't seen the podium in that time.
On www.wrc.com, Colin denies that he will be leaving the WRC, even though he lost his drive at Citroen to Carlos Sainz, his long time teammate. He has enough money to fund his own team, so I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.
He also said, "If I have to take a year off from the sport, then So be it."
I think he should take a shot with one of the smaller teams, maybe Hyundai?
Jaggorri
09-15-2003, 02:53 PM
That's what I'm hoping since I know Freddie Loix and Armin Schwartz are going to heavily recruited as 3rd drivers since they haven't seen the podium in years.
Jaggorri
09-16-2003, 09:16 AM
Good question. I think this rule is mainly to rearrange the teams for next year in order to have a more "level" playing field. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
vBulletin® v3.8.2, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.