Giant Ic....

[Sniper]

http://www.extremepsi.dns2go.com/Images/6_01_02/BIGINTERCOOLER.JPG

damn that thing's big.....

[Mickee]

that aint shit....

go to hybrid something a company in Australia... way thicker and wide also...

i cant find th elink.....

[AWD_Dan]

Talk about boost LAG...

But yea, :bow: to the Coola yo!

[dero84]

http://z31.com/~morgan/nd/z/240tt5.jpg

[Skipp]

Uhh wouldnt something that big reduce boost?

[dero84]

not on a twin turbo v8

[FiestaR]

wouldnt like to see that pulling up beside you for a race :haha:

[RS/377]

That looks like a powerstroke ic. That thing is so big people cut it in half and boom you have two nice size ic's

The powerstroke IC is a little different
http://www.turbomustangs.com/car_images/intercoolers/Powerstroke.jpg

And I really have to wonder, how much of the lag would be offset by the fact that with an intercooler that big, you would have a reeally cool charge going into the engine

[Tats]

Originally posted by RS/377
The powerstroke IC is a little different
http://www.turbomustangs.com/car_images/intercoolers/Powerstroke.jpg

And I really have to wonder, how much of the lag would be offset by the fact that with an intercooler that big, you would have a reeally cool charge going into the engine


I also wonder what the pressure drop would be across it too.

Tats.

[Buggsy]

The closer your boost charge gets to ambient temp, the less there is to gain. If you can get rid of 90% of the heat with an ic that is one third that size, then what is the point. Easier to get that last 10% with a water spray, or go below ambient with an ice water spray. It would take three BOValves to empty that thing between shifts.

[RS/377]

Originally posted by Buggsy
The closer your boost charge gets to ambient temp, the less there is to gain. If you can get rid of 90% of the heat with an ic that is one third that size, then what is the point. Easier to get that last 10% with a water spray, or go below ambient with an ice water spray. It would take three BOValves to empty that thing between shifts.

Well, for one if you are randomly spraying anything at the track, people get pissed.

The other funny thing is that old 2.3l ford race cars used to use intercoolers about that size, and they didn't have BOV's. That really must have sucked since they should have had three.

[Ritz S14]

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/338000-338999/338350_9_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/338000-338999/338350_24_full.jpg
:D

[Buggsy]

By all means then, run a giant intercooler with no BOV. Let us know what happens.

[Carcrazy]

http://www.kenkenkikki.jp/zukan/dump/e_032.html

does this truck have an ic?or a ratiatior?

[RS/377]

Originally posted by Buggsy
By all means then, run a giant intercooler with no BOV. Let us know what happens.

Well, lets see, tons of truck compnanies did it for years. Lots of turbo cars didn't come with BOV's.

Not saying its the greatest thing in the world to do, but it worked for decades.

I'm just laughing at the fact you say you need three blow off valves.

Can you show me one race car with even two BOV's, not counting twin turbo set ups?

[fusionsport]

Larger intercoolers arent always the answer, and a lot of this discussion is just BSing unless you know to what purpose the car is being used for.

For drag racing, where boost must be maintained between shifts for the best ET well tuned BOVs and proper intercooling is important, and can make a difference on your timeslip

For street use a BOV isnt 100% nec, but adds longevity and some drivability to a street driven turbo car. Ford 2.3s, most early audis turbos, and several other turbo cars of the 80s had no BOV and worked fine.

For a road race car a BOV is a take or leave deal...the 935 Porsches didnt have them, and they were one of the best turbo race cars of all time, and the intercooler took up the whole back shelf area.

The purpose of the BOV isnt BTW to empty an intercooler, or even the charge pipes of compressed air. it is to relieve pressure, and just one valve, properly sized, would be sufficient even for that intercooler.

[Buggsy]

Like I said, let us know what happens. If it is an automatic, great. If it is not, it may go into surge and wipe out his turbo bearings. It may not. It may spool way down between shifts and lag. It may not.
As for three BOVs, I was trying to make a point. Perhaps I should have said one hundred BOVs. Then you would have gotten it.
And yes, a BOV dumps pressure. I can't imagine what else might be in there, can you? I guess you don't like short posts.
And we're back to the Porsche race car thing again on the SRO forum. Obviously you want to be the only person to make a comment on this forum other than "WOW", so I'll leave you to it.

[RS/377]

If it is not, it may go into surge and wipe out his turbo bearings.

Thats funny, I thought compressor surge damaged the compressor wheel, not the bearings.

As for three BOVs, I was trying to make a point. Perhaps I should have said one hundred BOVs

You were making a point by making no sense?

It would have made way more sense if you had said "You would need a real big BOV to clear that intercooler. We would have put you at the level of "Super Street" subscirber then.

And we're back to the Porsche race car thing again on the SRO forum

No, we're back at the point that you are not correct.

Obviously you want to be the only person to make a comment on this forum other than "WOW", so I'll leave you to it.

You're one of those people too, sort of.

We want to talk about things in a little more depth and maybe share some knowledge.

You just want to say something and have people say "oh yeah, three BOV's, that would be wicked" or "WOW" and not call you on it.

I have to apologize though, you are on the wrong BBS for that.

(BTW- you may report any and all of my posts to a moderator if you think I am out of line or am spreading incorrect information)

[fusionsport]

Originally posted by Buggsy
Like I said, let us know what happens. If it is an automatic, great. If it is not, it may go into surge and wipe out his turbo bearings. It may not. It may spool way down between shifts and lag. It may not.
As for three BOVs, I was trying to make a point. Perhaps I should have said one hundred BOVs. Then you would have gotten it.
And yes, a BOV dumps pressure. I can't imagine what else might be in there, can you? I guess you don't like short posts.
And we're back to the Porsche race car thing again on the SRO forum. Obviously you want to be the only person to make a comment on this forum other than "WOW", so I'll leave you to it.


the Porsche was just an example... the Rousch XR4ti's that won trans am didnt use a BOV either and won the championship.For that matter the March IndyCar in the shop doesnt use BOV or a wastegate, but a pop-off valve, which is totally different

a compressor goes into surge and can take out the bearings in SOME extreme cases, but the more likely damage will be the twisting of the turbine shaft and/or the shearing/fracturing of the vanes.

In the shop right now is a old 911 turbo conversion without bov (or intercooler ftm) and surprise...its worked flawlessly for thousands of miles. I can provide pics if you like

[RS/377]

fusionsport, if a pop of valve is in place to enforce the rules limiting boost, how do they stay intact when the compressor does surge if the vehicle does not have a BOV?

[cfdguy]

rs/377 , when you asked "how do they stay intact when the compressor does surge " do you mean the pop off valve ot the turbocharger? . i'm not sure what engine fusionsport has in the march but if it has slide throttles, but no throttle body at the plenum intake , the pop off valve will act like a bov considering the low boost cart cars run . actually there really isn't any difference between a bov and a pop off valve. Even if the throttle is between the compressor and the pop off surge may not be an issue . Remember not all surge is audible, and only really violent or sustained surge is damaging . In fact if you could see the data trace of a lot of turbocharged cars and heavy trucks you will see that they are in "soft surge" quite alot . i'd bet some higher boost applications are in surge(oscillating (surge , recovery ,surge ... )) as the bov is operating . Low mass flow , high pressure ratio = surge . I've built a few super high pressure ratio compressors for diesel tractor pullers . when they let off at the end of a pull at 100 psig imp they surge so hard full flow reversal occurs and they belch out air and water from the compressor inlet.. the noise makes you're hair stand on end !. :eek:

[fusionsport]

the March is a cosworth DFX, the popoff is like a combined wastegate and BOV which is used to keep the teams from running more boost than allowed. and though the popoff can be cheated a bit the fuel milage cant, which is what allowed close racing in indycars. the POV opens at the required pressure and thus boost is limited...the throttle opened or closed makes no difference, although when the throttle is closed the boost spike will open the valve BUT ONLY AS MUCH AS THE PRE-SET BOOST PRESSURE in other words if the legal pressure is 21psi, the throttle opened or closed that is the boost level in the pipes when the turbo is spooling....period. let off the gas and the POV opens, boost drops to 21psi, valve closes, compressor stalls slghtly, throttle is opened, turbo spools, and we begin again

a normal BOV on the other hand drops pressure completely from the intake tract and dumps it to atmosphere or back into the intake tract in front of the compressor...

[cfdguy]

right .. i always forget about the "vacuum" holding the valve open until until imp goes back up . i've been working on too many compression ignition engines lately ! . a while back i talked a tech at holset about the hx55r turbocharger they tested for cosworth . neat stuff , black glass turbine hsg. . He told me this thing was capable of overcoming the popoff valve and exceeding boost limit, but like you mentioned , fuel consumption became an issue. they used it for burst power settings . this is going off topic but do you know how much boost cart is running on the cosworth "spec" engines now . last year it was something like 34 in hg absolute (The allowable intake manifold pressure shall be limited to a maximum pressure of thirty-four (34) inches of mercury absolute for the 2002 season.) that is just a whisper of boost (34 - 29.92 = 4.08 in hg or a little over 2 psig ?) is this right ?:confused:

[Asad]

http://www.bgnra.org/PartsTwin_Intercooler_Lou.jpg

[doug242ti]

We've been using Powerstroke ICs (intact no less) in turbo volvos for over a year now. Everyone says the lag is REDUCED, obviously they have less pressure drop than the OE volvo ones. I personally use an NPR IC (because A it doesnt explode at 20psi like the volvo, B it fits better than the PS) and I've noticed similar results.

Oh most diesels afaik don't have TB's, everything is controlled by the fuel flow. But your right, both our dodge rams (running 35psi each :D) do not have any sort of pressure relief... course they don't make vac' either (being TB'less).

Doug