Mazda Miata

[93eclipse]

Hey, I am thinking about buying a mid 90's Miata, and I was wondering, would it be more feasible to do an engine swap, or are there a lot of parts for the Miata engine. If an engine swap is more feasible, does anyone know what engine can fit in there? Thx for any info on this.

[Scott]

Depends which engine you get with it. there's really nothing wrong with either of them per say, but the overall consensus is that the 1.8 is better than the 1.6. the trannies for them are interchangeable and both engines have good aftermarket support.

miatas on the whole are well supported cars from an aftermarket standpoint. turbo kits, suspenion stuff, pretty much anything you want, you can find.

but if you want to do an engine swap...for about 20 grand you can have a ford 302 in that miata...but that's a sin against nature and ruins a perfectly good miata. from what i've heard someone on miata.net was either working on, or had finished a miata with an sr20det. i've also heard of them having 13b rotary engines (although it's supposedly a pretty tricky fit).

[Sniper]

there are more than a few miatas in the 400hp range......if you actually think you need more than that, you should probably look for a different car.......

[Fast2Seater]

There is really no need to swap a different engine into a Miata. The 1.8L has shown to be able to support 400+ whp with a stock bottom end. The transmission is good to about 300 lbft of torque if its not constantly abused and the torsen LSD seems to be able to hold about the same amount of power. Its not hard at all to build a Miata into a 12 second 1/4 mile car that can also function fine as a daily driver.

The biggest name in turbo Miatas would be Flyin Miata, www.flyinmiata.com Also Ric Stevens, owner of the quickest Miata in America, has a shop, www.racingmazda.com There are numerous other companies that make many aftermarket components. Do some searching over at www.miata.net and the forums at www.miataforum.com

[jabba]

do the small block............. monster miatas are wicked

[addicted2speed]

And Monster Miatas prolly handle like shit. There are turbochargers and superchargers out there than can give you more power than you can handle with a Miata. But remember, a Miata was made to handle, no to tear up a dragstrip.

[fusionsport]

I had a customer who contracted me to drop in a land rover 4.9 litre all-aluminum V8 that weighed less than the four cylinder, and the plan was to twin-turbo it- sadly he ran out of cash so I dont know what became of his car- would love another chance to do one though- the car would have just rocked

[93eclipse]

Thanks for the info, I will check into those links.

[Scott]

Originally posted by fusionsport
I had a customer who contracted me to drop in a land rover 4.9 litre all-aluminum V8 that weighed less than the four cylinder, and the plan was to twin-turbo it- sadly he ran out of cash so I dont know what became of his car- would love another chance to do one though- the car would have just rocked

i'm inclined to agree. that would be an amazing machine. the 4.9 really weighs less than the 1.8? wow, pretty neat if you ask me. :)

[93eclipse]

That would be a good idea, but its gotta cost a hell of a lot of money for that all aluminum 4.9 block.

[fusionsport]

yeah the 4.9 litre weighs less than the Miata motor due to its all aluminum- and I mean all- heads, intake, water pump, oil pump[ housing, etc- contruction versus the aluminum head/cast iron block of the miata- the rover motor is strong to and i have seen them boosted to around 600 hp, which is just insane in a miata-

the cost of the conversion is in building the rover motor- the motor itself is only about 2k from an importer or salvage yard- add another pile of cash if you want major power levels, as with anything else

[Mr. Import]

use it for the turns definetly..ther fun trough the turns...and its pretty modible to

[EvilMakoto]

Remember the first time you saw a Miata? It was the first break-away bubble car I ever saw. I remember walking around this red soap-bar looking thing, and thought "this car will never catch on."
Just another reason I don't play the lottery..

[QwanSanchez]

I think it all depends on what ur planning on doing with the car. the 1.6 should be fine if ur actual gonna race the thing. But if ur just going for the straight line speed id say go with the 1.8L it can handle more more with the stock bottom end. It all depends in what ur gonna do.

[OneFastMiata]

Im always amused to see people talking about how certain cars handle like "shit" and quoting facts on them,when they DONT EVEN OWN ONE. Nor have they probably driven one.

Uggh.


With that said, NO, monster miatas handle JUST FINE. Yes, the 302 does weigh more than the miata motor. If you put aluminum heads on, its still about 50lbs more.

Cheers
Jennifer

[fusionsport]

actually I have driven several monster miatas, and have autocrossed them, and they handle like pigs compared to a stock miata, and even after adjusting spring rate the point of balance in the car is changed, along with loss of the IRS, and the handling is never again quite s good as even a stock miata-

[greg]

Is the Spec miata engine the 1.6 or 1.8? also, did you hear about the scca's decision to make the new SM spec tire the hankook Ventus R compound? I havent heard very much about this tire before, except for the ads in GRM with the anime chick on them.

But if you want power out of a miata, ive seen good thing out of the Flying Miata turbo kit.

[Fast2Seater]

Originally posted by fusionsport
actually I have driven several monster miatas, and have autocrossed them, and they handle like pigs compared to a stock miata, and even after adjusting spring rate the point of balance in the car is changed, along with loss of the IRS, and the handling is never again quite s good as even a stock miata-

They usually use the IRS from a T-Bird/Cougar, but I still don't see how the handling could not be retained completely. Granted a 5.0 Miata will still handle better than 95% of the cars on the road I don't think it would have the same charactaristics of a 4cyl car, not just due to weight.

Originally posted by greg
Is the Spec miata engine the 1.6 or 1.8? also, did you hear about the scca's decision to make the new SM spec tire the hankook Ventus R compound? I havent heard very much about this tire before, except for the ads in GRM with the anime chick on them.


Both the 1.6 and 1.8 cars are legal, but:

1800cc cars shall use a restrictor in the fuel injection system. The throttle restrictor shall be placed between the throttle body and plenum and shall be a 0.060" flat steel or Aluminum plate with the specified orifice. No air shall bypass the throttle restrictor.

1994 - 1995 47mm restrictor
1996 - 1997 45mm restrictor

-from the spec Miata homepage at www.specmiata.com

[OneFastMiata]

Originally posted by fusionsport
actually I have driven several monster miatas, and have autocrossed them, and they handle like pigs compared to a stock miata, and even after adjusting spring rate the point of balance in the car is changed, along with loss of the IRS, and the handling is never again quite s good as even a stock miata-

Hmmm.

I Autrocross too. And I own a Monster Motorsports Miata.


I also own a turbo autocross miata. A 1991 miata with a 1.8 liter swapped motor/ smaller turbo ( for autocross) and TEC II, koni coilovers.

My drag car is a "big turbo" car with TEC II and custom valved Koni's with stock springs.

All have custom suspension work. I only mention this so that you know I do have a good comparisons.

Im not sure what "monster" you drove but the Monster Motorsports cars DID retain the Independant Rear Suspension. They went to great pains to do so.

And, with the adjustment of the front springs, and konis all round the car handles wonderfully.

[fusionsport]

where have you autocrossed? I am from nashville and might have seen your car- there used to be an old guy with a monster kit that came out and autocrossed but the car just sucked so bad...he eventually gave up

there is also a pair of turbo miatas autocrossing with us- a 1.8 and 1.6 car, the 1/6 running link and the 1.8 running tecll- which btw sucks ass and has several problems with boost management-
I think he will upgrade to DTA soon but until then he gets to futz with the tecll- have you had any trans problems with your turboed car? Scott has- and I have fixed it enough to know exactly what happens and why-

the pair of monster miatas I drove and maintained were both solid rear axle 8.8s from a mustang- both cars had decent power great torque, and zero handling as I consider it- post up the results from your last autocross- Id like to see them

While I am thinking about it i twincharged a miata once, and wouldnt mind doing it again, but its not cheap

edit- thought I had better point out that twincharging means both super-and turbo charging :)

[fusionsport]

from a monsters owers site

MM modified the suspension by replacing the springs, anti-sway bars and wheels. The springs are 1/2 inch shorter and firmer. Unfortunately, they didn't also replace the shocks to balance out the ride correctly. The result is a Monster with a slight tendancy to bob too much, both front and back. You can really see the car squad hard during hard launches. MM uses 15x6.5 wheels at all four corners: 205/50/15 front, and 225/50/15 rear. Also, the brakes are stock but crossed drilled to reduce fading during hard runs


How does the car handle? (i.e. does it still drive like a normal Miata)

Yes, all the rumors you have heard about the Monster’s unconventional (compared to the original Miata) is true--the Monster is truly a beast of a completely different class. First and foremost, the over-abundance of power to the rear wheels means that you will easily spin the rear wheels out of control both in straight lines and turns. Given the proper shifting techniques you spin the wheels in first, second and even third gear. This also means an excessive amount of oversteer. To make matters worse, the Monster lacks power steering because of the tight packaging under the hood, which makes it difficult to fit a power steering pump and related assembly. This means catching the tail while fishtailing is one straneous affair. And being able to catch the tail with just the right amount of counter steer is incredibly important because the short overall length of the body typically kicks out so quickly that the car gives little warning when its about it wag its tail. You will have to spend some quality time behind the wheels if you want to tame this beast. On the street, an inexperienced driver would be very intimidated both by the power and its excessive tendency to fish tail.

Any other handling characteristics? Oh, in my humble opinion, everything else is over shadowed by the power, the noise and the tail-happy, neck-snapping tendencies that drives the adrenaline gland crazy

pretty typical of the cars I have seen/driven/maintained

[OneFastMiata]

The monster sucked so bad he had to give up eh? The TEC II cars suck too eh? Thats a real shame, guess theres no accounting for people who know what they're doing.


My Fiancee and I both won both 2 seperate regions this season. Central Kentucky and Kentucky in SM2 SM2L respectively, we also both won our classes respectively in the Central Division Subaru Events. For those who dont know our region is one of the most competative in the US, with MANY former national champions coming from our area, Bruce Domeck, Lisa Domeck, Eric Pedigrew, Kumar Viswalingham etc etc, and many more who have consistantly placed top 5. You should come up and check out our scene sometime.


To answer your questions, Yes, my TEC cars run just fine. In fact, my big turbo TEC II car currently holds the fastest quartermile MPH in the USA, and second quickest ET in the country. I also daily drive it.
11.1@127.5mph

No, I havent ruined ANY transmissions. Not one. I have blown up one torsen rear end due to wheel hop in the drag car, and I replaced it with a KAAZ lsd.

Our TEC II autocross miata also runs fine, and was the car we used primarily to run this season soloII. We did, however, also run the monster on STREET TIRES, and the times were comparible to SuperStock and ASP.


I dont have to take information off a "monster owners site" because I OWN one. Mine is independant...which is my bane because the damn thing wont launch like a mustang at the drag strip. Mine also doesnt have stock brakes with crossdrilled rotors. Mine came from Monster the way it sits now. You can check it out in the AUSTRALIAN MOTOR mag, feb 1994 ( still available). The feature article is on my car.

With the exception of the monster, we built all our own cars, the turbo systems are full custom, and the TEC II maps are also custom.

I guess if you know how to drive and tune, things dont suck quite so bad.

http://www.onlineshowoff.com/index.asp?section=profile&username=OneFastMiata

Cheers
Jennifer Tipton
aka MIATA MAMMA
Louisville Kentucky

[OneFastMiata]

PS, the 'old guy" you speak of...If he has a white one with blue stripes...its NOT a monster. Its a V8 miata swap that was done under a shadetree.

Also, monster's never had a mustang rear 8.8 rear end, they used Thunderbird rear ends with cut down cryo'd half shafts and retained the miata A arm.

[Fast2Seater]

OneFastMiata, I take it you are Miata_mama from the Miata forums? Just in case you guys don't know, she drives some of the fastest Miatas around. I'd imagine driving charactaristcs similar to a modern verion of a Sunbeam Tiger. I personally can't vouch though, as I have never driven a V8 Miata, anyone want to let me borrow their car for a day or so? :p

[OneFastMiata]

Yes thats me. :

If you're ever in the area, drop by and you're more than welcome to play with the cars. :cool:

[10AELee]

whats the average cost miata mamma to build a turbo 1.8 miata..average? im looking to get one in the near future..i had a JRSC 9910AE but i sold it =(

[OneFastMiata]

It really depends on how much power you want and what route you want to take.

I dont run Flying Miata kits on my cars...so Im a little out of the loop on what bills kits cost, but I think around $4000 for something you'd be proud to write home about.

Mine are all custom set ups, I'd have to sit down and figure up costs. The Custom Manifold work cost me alot I do remember.


Wish I could weld stainless.
:grr:

[fusionsport]

actually I think Schuster is still using his TECll but has about maxed out the TECll, still having boost control problems, and is ready for the DTA and its advantages- I have tuned more TEClls than I care to think about and trust me- it sucks- if you think you have a good map and management now you should seriously try either MOTEC or DTA, or for that matter even Pectel or Autronic would be a step up- central kentucky is a pretty competetive region, I personally ran in the Tennessee region, won a championship in a menagerie of cars(in one year i drove a MG Midget, VW Scirroco, VW Rabbit, a Miata,and TVR, in the same class) and I might check out central kentucky region sometime, my buddy Wally sometimes runs with them
the 1.6 turbo car I spoke about has gone through several transmissions due to destroying second gear on launch, eliminating the limited slip seems to have cured that issue

it is possible that the two monster cars i drove were done specifically for street/drag racing, as that is what they were used for and were rarely street driven- it is possible they were converted to solid axle to make them launch better- but it made them very ill handling- I might call the owners, as I am curious now why the difference

The twincharged car i spoke of was in TN, and is probably still in its garage, with all of 1000 miles since the conversion- what a waste

just in case you want to check out DTA engine management-
www.dtafast.co.uk
and BTW- I weld stainless :) lol
our site
www.3r-racing.com

[OneFastMiata]

Im not sure why you speak the way you do, but you really have a way of rubbing people the wrong way.

Im sorry you think the TEC sucks. I dont. It works quite well for me. If your friend has "maxed out" the TEC ( I have NO idea what you mean by maxed out, as it makes little sense) then Im surprised we havent seen his car out there in the magazines.

I have RX7's as well, with both Haltech and Motec. Im familiar with Autronic as well. I like the TEC.

What championship did you win?

Eliminating your limited slip to guard your transmission seems a little silly. ???

If you ever come to Central Kentucky Region, or Kentucky please look us up, myself and my fiancee George Frazier would be glad to meet you.

[T_MO]

Originally posted by OneFastMiata
I have RX7's as well
im so jealous, because you can refer to cars you have plural........
i hope i can do that some day :)

do you have any pics of any of your cars?? if so post them up.

[fusionsport]

Originally posted by OneFastMiata
Im not sure why you speak the way you do, but you really have a way of rubbing people the wrong way.

I didnt show up saying that people criticise monster miatas without having driven or owned one- fact is I have driven them and my was able to form my own opinion of them- I dont like the way they handle- sorry thats just me

Im sorry you think the TEC sucks. I dont. It works quite well for me. If your friend has "maxed out" the TEC ( I have NO idea what you mean by maxed out, as it makes little sense) then Im surprised we havent seen his car out there in the magazines.

I actually dont think in most cases a turbo miata belongs in a magazine- kinda like that article about tha "restored" 3gRX-7 I just saw some where- nothing special about the car, even less special about the build- I mean what in the world is so special about bolting on a turbo kit? a job that can be done in an afternoon- and the TEC2 is even less impressive, as nearly all TEC wiring jobs look like crap- the only thing noteworthy about Schusters car IMO is that he found a set of individual throttle bodies off a SCCA racecar and has them instead of the OEM intake, but thats about it

by maxed out I mean it isnt flexible or fast enough to do what he wants to do, not that he cant tune the thing well enough to run- he actually does quite well, but the TEC system is simply a bit slow with its math functions to do what he needs it to do, and he is frustrated with it, has been for about a year, the system does work well- but it isnt anywhere near MOTEC or even DTA, and this is not intended to piss you off, I just happen to have worked with it enough to realize its shortcomings- MOF we now take it off Porsches and install either MOTEC or DTA, again- not that it is a bad system per se..its just its not as good as it needs to be in most applications- it is a decent street car light track car system, but not up to much else- no offense, thats just the way it is, the TEC3 seems better, but even now we are hearing about 944Turbo owners having issues with it

I have RX7's as well, with both Haltech and Motec. Im familiar with Autronic as well. I like the TEC.

again thats fine- glad you like it- I am sure for your purpose it is fine, I prefer DTA and MOTEC

What championship did you win?

As a driver? I won the tennessee region scca regional DSP championship in 96, my last full year of autocrossing :( also won a few club races back in the day, before racing became a full-time job

As a Car/Crew Chief? my cars have won in Speed GT and Touring,(I helped to re-engineer Phil McClures Corvette this year, and he not only held pole but WON the first race of the year at Sebring), HSR, PCA, POC, NASA, SVRA, and of course SCCA Club RAcing

Eliminating your limited slip to guard your transmission seems a little silly. ???

launching with the limited slip generated too much grip, and on the 1st-2nd shift he would destroy 2nd gear, one actaully had all its teeth stripped from it- it is a flaw in mazda transmissions I think, as the 626 we ran in World Challenge with David Leslie suffered the same problem, and he is extremely easy on the trans- at Sears he unloaded/loaded the front wheels over a bump, and when the car regained traction third gear was completely destroyed, at Portland the gear selector forks broke, at Atlanta we suffered another gearbox failure, most of which was attributed to the shock of loss of grip/extreme slip then the sudden onset of traction- even after shot-peening and prepping the gears they broke, just a minor flaw in the design- Scott destroyed two trans that i know of, and once he switched to the open diff he didnt break transmissions, again, the open diff allows the wheels to spin, and doesnt stress tha drivetrain

If you ever come to Central Kentucky Region, or Kentucky please look us up, myself and my fiancee George Frazier would be glad to meet you.

cool- i am actually planning a trip back to nashville in a few weeks to re-install the engine in an RX-7, once the new turbos and downpipe are in(amazing how long it takes to get parts that are "in stock" and "on the shelf"), might be able to take the time to drop in- might even convince Dimitri to bring the 7 for its shakedown

[mx3LilsiX]

This is really cool thread. I always like what the Miata brought to the table. But I've sat in miata's and I feel like I'm in a coffin. But I have sat in a Z3 BMW and that was hella fun. But I'll prolly never get one...just the fact that the z3 is 10-20 g's more than a miata. With the Miata engine you can drop in a BPT engine...210 Hp in that little car...that just enough fun.